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  #46  
Old 03-24-2009, 06:05 AM
speedobreedo speedobreedo is offline
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Isn't it about time someone put this in perspective. Who cares whether you use a stand or not? Probably only some other musician who says "I can do better than that". Music is there to be listened to and enjoyed by the audience. Most of whom marvel at the fact that you can sing and play the guitar and couldn't care less whether you learnt every word and every lick and have them all memorized. Unless you have some kind of visual act then I don't think you are any less a performer and I don't need to see all of you. Just your head is good enough if the sounds coming out are good.
They are not your tunes in the first place (mostly) so if you can remember 100 songs perfectly then go for it. Impressive memory. But if the guy/girl down the road sound better than you and is using a prop so that there is less chance that they make a mistake, I'm going to listen to them!
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  #47  
Old 03-24-2009, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
I don't really have an opinion one way or the other, but I thought I would point out that Bruce Springsteen uses a teleprompter. Also I just saw a film of an Allman Brothers concert the other night and Gregg Allman had his music laying out on his piano. Neither one is a obvious as a music stand, but both do the same thing. I think you could call either one of those guys professionals .
Actually I saw a televised Springsteen concert on some music channel several weeks ago and he was in fact using a music stand for some of the songs in his very long performance set. The crowd was still cheering and rocking out like nobody's business...
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  #48  
Old 03-24-2009, 07:33 AM
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Brent Hutto Brent Hutto is offline
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I think it works this way...

If you're a Springsteen fan and he uses a stand/prompter then that's proof that he's so cool it doesn't matter.

If you're not a fan and he uses a stand/prompter then it's proof he's lame.

And if it's some guy you'll never meet that you're blasting on the Internet then using a stand is proof he's a hack and a fake and a total loser.
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  #49  
Old 03-24-2009, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi fulano...
Our active set list is over 65 songs, and they are all memorized...it's just a matter of discipline and time.

My preference is to not use music in front of me...and my opinion of guitarists/singers who play/sing without scores in front of them is higher than it is of those who use scores or lyric sheets when they perform...
I respectfully disagree. It's not always a function of discipline and time. Not all have the ability or capacity to recall for a number of reasons. That's great for those who can. I have seen all kinds of cheat sheet tactics used by performers over the years.

I am there for the music. I have seen it both ways and don't think less of anyone using sheet music, cheat sheets, or teleprompters. I choose to be impressed by those who memorize their music rather than thinking less of those who have difficulty with memorization.
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  #50  
Old 03-24-2009, 09:15 AM
fulano fulano is offline
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Originally Posted by Bevelman View Post
What do mean by a "background" performer? Is that like a 'potted plant' gig where you're only hired to provide background music?

Would your opinion change for a lead performer?
First of all, my main opinion on the topic is this - play music, period. I would rather play or rather someone else play than not to play so if having a music stand helps that happen...Great! I use one for lyrics but hope to eliminate it or significanlty reduce its use eventually.

The comment about background music. I just meant the difference between someone that's performing in the background at a bar / restaurant vs. someone that's putting on a concert. If people had paid tickets to see me perform (it's possible in bizzaro world I imagine) and I was front and center, I would want to play and sing from memory. I would hope that any visual aids for remembering would be extremely subtle if I needed them at all in that situation.

Has anyone ever tried puting a set list on those little armband things you see the quarterbacks using to keep track of the plays in football. That would be pretty funny to open it up, take a look, close the little velcro cover and play the next song. Could get some laughs actually.
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  #51  
Old 03-24-2009, 10:07 AM
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I respectfully disagree.
Hi SMan...
Well, as long as you are respectful, it's fine...
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  #52  
Old 03-24-2009, 10:09 AM
rdm321 rdm321 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chicago Sandy View Post
I have yet to see a symphony orchestra, professional classical choir, or singer doing an art song/lieder recital without sheet music.
Hi Sandy:
Normally this is true, but recently I was witness to an exception to this practice.
Last November we were given free tickets to a concert by the Gryphon Trio, a renowned chamber music group. The trio has 3 members: Jamie Parker (piano), Roman Borys (cello) ansd Annalee Patapatanakoon (violin). Parker & Borys sit to play, but Patapatanakoon stands and plays without sheet music. At the performance we saw, the trio was really on fire. AP showed some moves that wouldn't be out of place in a stadium rock concert. I'm not normally a chamber music fan, but I hung on every note!

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  #53  
Old 03-24-2009, 11:05 AM
BigRed51 BigRed51 is offline
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I tried to resist the temptation of voicing my opinion here, but I am weak. Far too often we look for things to criticize in other folks, to build our own self esteem. I find that sad. To judge a musical performance based upon the presence of a music stand seems pretty extreme to me. In a worship environment, if a congregation even notices a music stand being used, I would suggest that the focus is being badly misdirected. I respectfully disagree with the comparison of actors carrying scripts, and musicians using lyrics or music. I find that quite a stretch, but it's just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
I have never played on a Worship Team with music...most is pretty simple, and not that complex. ... I still prefer people who learn their music...tell me a story don't read it to me...
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
All our singers can see the words on an LCD screen while singing, so that eliminates the need for ''paper''.
I think there is a disconnect here. Learning to play 3 or 4 songs is far different from memorizing lyrics. While you seem to be satisfied with the use of electronic prompters, they are a little pricey for most of us, to say nothing of the inconvenience of carrying them around. I have seen people use stands for lyrics and use them very well with passing glances, and I have seen people focus constantly on a screen. With either resource, using them properly is important.

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Originally Posted by rmyAddison View Post
Depends on the venue............

There are some pretty good to world class musicians in symphony orchestras that use music stands, again it depends on the venue. I don't use a stand but I don't hold it against those that do, it's my ears not my eyes they have to impress.
Amen! Since I don't read music, I am quite impressed by a piano player who can site read and play something well! As many have mentioned, I have seen MANY mainstream professional singers use lyric sheets ... and I have seen some forget lyrics when they didn't!

I have also been called upon to sing as many as three songs that I had never done before on 24 hours notice or less ... once with 90 minutes notice, including travel time. I chose not to say that I could not honor their request, since I would have to look at the lyrics. No one complained.

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Originally Posted by Bevelman View Post
I don't see why there would be an issue just memorising the lyrics for four songs.

When I'm learning the lyrics to a new song, I listen to it non-stop over a few days and start to sing along. I might look up the lyrics and try and sing without them only referring back if I forget something. Eventually, it all falls into place and this may take a few days.
Again, consider the circumstances. Memorizing lyrics to 4 songs is easier for some than for others. Should someone with learning disabilities not perform because they need a music stand with lyrics? Four songs with several day's notice is one situation ... what if it were a three hour program with 45 songs? What if it is 24 hour's notice?

My current "repertoire" as it is has 90 gospel songs, and another 50 secular that I don't require lyric sheets to sing ... and since I don't read music, that is never an issue! But I also have a notebook with about 200 more lyric sheets, and there are times when I call on that resource. One example:

About 35 years ago, I played banjo and guitar in a duet (we would switch back and forth, to help cure boredom!), playing table-to-table for tips in a restaurant in Waco, Texas. One night, a very nice lady in her eighties who had recently lost her husband asked us to sing a song that had been her husband's favorite song. Neither of us knew it, but I had the lyrics in the car, so told her I would get them on our next break and come back. We got the words, practiced for about 45 seconds, and with the words laying on her table, we sang her request. She was very emotional, and thanked us profusely, and tipped us each $20 ... on her way out, she came over and gave me a big hug, and thanked us again.

I don't think she cared one bit that we had to read the lyrics.

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Originally Posted by SMan View Post
I respectfully disagree. It's not always a function of discipline and time. Not all have the ability or capacity to recall for a number of reasons. That's great for those who can. I have seen all kinds of cheat sheet tactics used by performers over the years.

I am there for the music. I have seen it both ways and don't think less of anyone using sheet music, cheat sheets, or teleprompters.
Very nicely put ... thank you! We should all do more enjoying and less criticizing and judging!
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  #54  
Old 03-24-2009, 11:51 AM
David Hilyard David Hilyard is offline
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A favorite music genre of mine is Brazilian music. I have a video of this performance and several others at the same concert, of Antonio Carlos Jobim, his band and chorus, many of them family members, performing many of his songs. He has music, laying down on the piano in front of him. In this song, he doesn't refer to it much. In other songs, he does. And he wrote the songs. And his family is obviously familiar with the songs. The flute player, Danilo Caymmi, also the singer in some of the other songs, uses music in front of him both for flute and for singing. How much he refers to it is unclear. Probably not much. But it's there.

Is this performance any less musical than one without those musical safeguards out? Is it distracting? Are they less of musicians? Hardly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev2VR...eature=related
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  #55  
Old 03-24-2009, 02:00 PM
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And if it's some guy you'll never meet that you're blasting on the Internet then using a stand is proof he's a hack and a fake and a total loser.
I'm hoping this is supposed to be sarcasm.
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  #56  
Old 03-24-2009, 02:08 PM
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Brent Hutto Brent Hutto is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
I'm hoping this is supposed to be sarcasm.
It's sarcasm intended as a completely serious criticism of the uncharitable tone of some responses on this thread. It takes no great courage to dismissively insult someone you've never met because they happen to perform their music in a trivially different manner than yourself.

Supposedly this is the "be nice" forum and therefore I would hope its members would take the tiny extra effort to present their own choices as what they are...preferences and not evidence of their complete superiority to anyone who does things differently.
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  #57  
Old 03-24-2009, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeTX View Post
(*) - for a few months now, instead of an actual book, I have been successfully using a touch-screen tablet computer - same size as a standard piece of paper, on a 11-by-8-inch music stand that fits it perfectly - very low key and just a dream to use - I touch a song title, the sheet pops up, another touch and back to the list - it's great. I use big font, colors, and don't have to scroll. Some people check this out and think it's very cool. I agree!
Mike, can you please provide more info and/or a link to one of these devices. How much did it cost? I tried this at home using an old laptop where I prepared the lyrics in MSPowerpoint and put the mouse at my foot and stepped on the lift clicker to advance to the next song. Your tablet seems like a better concept so I'm curious to see it.

Thanks.
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  #58  
Old 03-24-2009, 02:34 PM
Bevelman Bevelman is offline
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Originally Posted by BigRed51 View Post
Again, consider the circumstances. Memorizing lyrics to 4 songs is easier for some than for others. Should someone with learning disabilities not perform because they need a music stand with lyrics? Four songs with several day's notice is one situation ... what if it were a three hour program with 45 songs? What if it is 24 hour's notice?
In my case it's four or five songs (not new) with three or four weeks notice. I still don't think it's an issue.

Regarding the use of a tablet computer, given the frequency of the performance, it's not worth the cost but I would consider this if we were performing every week or more than once a week.
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  #59  
Old 03-24-2009, 03:06 PM
dracomonster400 dracomonster400 is offline
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I think that performing with a music stand is fine.
But, I feel that without one you connect more with the audience.

Whenever I play I like to walk around and clap my hands when I'm not playing guitar.
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  #60  
Old 03-24-2009, 03:19 PM
DaveG DaveG is offline
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Originally Posted by Brent Hutto View Post
It's sarcasm intended as a completely serious criticism of the uncharitable tone of some responses on this thread. It takes no great courage to dismissively insult someone you've never met because they happen to perform their music in a trivially different manner than yourself.

Supposedly this is the "be nice" forum and therefore I would hope its members would take the tiny extra effort to present their own choices as what they are...preferences and not evidence of their complete superiority to anyone who does things differently.
Now this I agree with completly. I guess I'm a little "sarcastically challenged" today .
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