Best of both worlds - bass and treble

[confusednoise]

All right guitar aficionados, give me your opinions. Yeah, I know the best thing is to get these guitars in my hands and see which one speaks to me, but I don’t have access to all the options without some travel and besides it’s just fun to talk, right?

So - I’ve got an HD-28VR as my number one. This was my dream guitar for a long time and finally, in the late 90s, I was able to get one. And it’s fantastic, my soul mate, if-I-can-only-have-one-guitar guitar. But... if I can have more than one there’s options. I’m in love with the Martin deep bass thump - if there were one thing I might want more from the HD-28 it would be to have that but with a stronger treble. Over the years I’ve picked up a great Eastman E20-OM and a spectacular E10D-TC. Both have that strong high end I’m wanting but don’t quite match up to the HD-28 bass.

So - what would be your suggestion for the best of both worlds? I’d been thinking about a higher end mahogany b&s since I’ve got the rosewood angle pretty well covered, but not sure if I can get the bass response. Maybe its the Adirondack top I’m wanting? I’ve got places to play some Collings, maybe some Santa Cruzs or Bourgeios. I’m kind of attracted to a Preston Thompson mahogany or a Pre-War but have no prospects to lay hands on one, same with Huss and Dalton. Another option is a Martin sinker mahogany or Authentic but again, nowhere nearby I can play those.

Music style - half the time it’s flat picking, half finger style. I do a lot of alternate/dropped tunings but also a lot of bluegrass in standard. Another great thing about the HD-28 is its ability to do all that.

What do you think? Musings desired!

[Brucebubs]

Have you played a D-18?

[timothylweaver]

Trust me Preston Thompson DMA will check all the boxes. I was searching for the exact thing and it blew me away.

[TBman]

What gauge strings do you use on your Martin?

I'm using a set of strings that have medium trebles and light basses on my Avalon:

13 17 25 32 42 53

That 13 and 17 might give you what you want. The strings are Elixir HD lights.

[confusednoise]

Brucebubs - I’ve played a couple of stock D-18s. They were great guitars, maybe not different enough from the -28 (to my ears at least) to get what I’m looking for

Timothy - I wish I could find one to play. Not a lot of them out there and none in the shops near me, though one place is expecting a D-EIR at some point.

[tbeltrans]

To follow up on TBman's recommendation:

https://www.stringsbymail.com/elixir...-53-13266.html

I use these strings on my Taylor K14ce BE and McPherson carbon fiber Sable, and really like them.

It would certainly be less expensive and, since you don't have ready access to a bunch of guitars that might provide what you want, giving the strings try first would be a very sensible thing to do...unless you have your heart set on getting another guitar, of course.

Tony

[J Patrick]

....not sure what you mean mean by increased treble response...a good Martin Dreadnought tends to have what I would describe as fat trebles....not the zingy crystalline high end response that I hear from some guitars.....I have heard Jumbos that provide a rumbling bass with a zingy high end but they don’t have the thump of a Dreadnought....Breedlove Jumbos come to mind....

....that said....the really exceptional spendy Dreadnoughts that I have played give up more of everything and might be the way to get the increased high end response you seek....a Santa Cruz Tony Rice Pro comes to mind...

....or you may just have to play a lot of examples in whatever price range you’re comfortable with to find a guitar that fits the bill....

[FrankHudson]

In an EQ sense you could cut bass to raise treble. I've played pieces where I wanted a complex and prominent bass string part. I didn't play it on a dread, much less a rosewood b&s dread, because then I'd have to palm mute the bass for the treble parts to have the presence I wanted there as well. At least once the guitar I chose was a small, mahogany b&s parlor (O sized). I could play the bass parts completely unmuted, and they stood out and sustained like I wanted them to without overwhelming the treble parts.

You don't mention midrange, but you may also be seeking sort of a "scooped midrange" "smile curve" EQ acoustically from a guitar. I'd consider trying 0 or 00 guitars, perhaps with rosewood b&s particularly if you are cross-picker or finger-picker.

I'm no luthier, but I'd also guess that top voicing has a lot to do with treble character in a guitar, but I can't say what to look for "spec-wise" there.

[Rosewood99]

My Lowden O-32 Jumbo Spruce/EIR has plenty of both bass and treble.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by confusednoise

All right guitar aficionados, give me your opinions. Yeah, I know the best thing is to get these guitars in my hands and see which one speaks to me, but I don’t have access to all the options without some travel and besides it’s just fun to talk, right?

So - I’ve got an HD-28VR as my number one. This was my dream guitar for a long time and finally, in the late 90s, I was able to get one. And it’s fantastic, my soul mate, if-I-can-only-have-one-guitar guitar. But... if I can have more than one there’s options. I’m in love with the Martin deep bass thump - if there were one thing I might want more from the HD-28 it would be to have that but with a stronger treble. Over the years I’ve picked up a great Eastman E20-OM and a spectacular E10D-TC. Both have that strong high end I’m wanting but don’t quite match up to the HD-28 bass.

So - what would be your suggestion for the best of both worlds? I’d been thinking about a higher end mahogany b&s since I’ve got the rosewood angle pretty well covered, but not sure if I can get the bass response. Maybe its the Adirondack top I’m wanting? I’ve got places to play some Collings, maybe some Santa Cruzs or Bourgeios. I’m kind of attracted to a Preston Thompson mahogany or a Pre-War but have no prospects to lay hands on one, same with Huss and Dalton. Another option is a Martin sinker mahogany or Authentic but again, nowhere nearby I can play those.

Music style - half the time it’s flat picking, half finger style. I do a lot of alternate/dropped tunings but also a lot of bluegrass in standard. Another great thing about the HD-28 is its ability to do all that.

What do you think? Musings desired!

Dear confused,

Modern Martins certainly have a "signature" sound - esp. on dreads. Back in the old days (I mean older than evern me!) - before the dreads and the OMs came out, Martin strove to make their guitars evenly balance across the strings, but with the 14 fret designs, that was abandoend for more bass.

There is a video on YouTube with Chris IV describing this.

As history shows it was a great succes for them, and as time went by and with the advent of pas, and amplification, we got tone pots which drove us to demand far more bass than in days of yore.

I'm not disrespecting Martin in any way, but I have now been Colling user for over 20 years now.

Some say that they are trebly compared to equivalent Martins, but actually, they are not trebly, so much as balanced.

Try not to thnik about tuening up the treble or tuning down the bass - as you would on a n amplifier, but playing with all the tone pots "flat".

Just a thought.

Best,

[cliff_the_stiff]

Martin J-40, Martin Grand J-35e, Gibson J-200, and I guessing the Gibson J-185 though have never played one.

[Pickcity]

I'm hoping my Gibson AJ will deliver all the same things you are searching for, but until it arrives I cannot comment.

It may sound crazy, and I'm fine with that, but my Alvarez masterworks md60ebg has everything I could have ever hoped for, and then some, with very strong bass and glorious trebles. So much clarity from top to bottom... It is all solid mahogany b&s. It has all the appointments of a high end guitar, but it is an import, making it very affordable. Only time will tell about the overall build quality and durability, but it seems well put together. I own higher end guitars, and have owned 3 D-18's, and the Alvarez is a lifetime keeper until it falls apart or I die. Whichever comes first.

[confusednoise]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

I used light gauge strings on the Martin for many years, but in the past few have started using Mediums or a Bluegrass gauge with medium low strings and light highs. That's a pretty good compromise - the HD-28VR was listed on the Martin site as shipping with light gauge strings, that was recently reiterated to me from a local luthier - but I like the mediums more. I've usually used D'Addario or Martins but sounds like it would be worth it to check out some other options.

Yeah, we all fall prey to just wanting another guitar sometimes and I'm definitely guilty of that. I'm definitely more attached to having a couple of really good instruments that I bond with more than having a room full of guitars and so probably would let one go if I got another high end guitar.

Mr. Moustache -- I'm definitely attracted to the Collings and have a couple of great places I can go to play some more. Just curious, do you see much difference in the Traditional line over the standard?

Good advice re: smaller body guitars, but after going through an OM purchase and eventual sale last year one of my big realizations was that I suspect I'm a dread guy. I could be talked out of it...

Thanks, all.

[vindibona1]

There is an inexpensive way to experiment with getting more oomph in selective areas of your guitar: SELECTIVE use of BLACKHORN BUFFALO BRIDGE PINS. I'm not recommending you change the entire set, though they only come in sets of six. But I think if you put one in the B and one in the high E you might find that does what you want without searching for another guitar. Typically I like a little more low end bass and put one Buffalo horn pin in the low E. The pin gives just enough oomph and clarity for me and the resultant harmonics help balance out the extra bass response. A set of pins is about the same cost as a set of Elixirs.

https://www.lmii.com/144-bridge-pins-and-end-pins