Where is your thumb barre chord

[KarenB]

Where is your left thumb when you're playing a barre chord, in relation to the first finger? Does the position change as you move up the neck? A guitar teacher once told me that you should be able to barre a chord without using thumb pressure, but that has always seemed impossible to me. Thanks.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by KarenB

Where is your left thumb when you're playing a barre chord, in relation to the first finger? Does the position change as you move up the neck? A guitar teacher once told me that you should be able to barre a chord without using thumb pressure, but that has always seemed impossible to me. Thanks.

I can't imagine what advantage there would be to not using your thumb as a brace for any chord, let alone a full barre chord.

My thumb falls on the back of the neck almost directly between my first and pinky finger.

[schmalex]

For barre chords and power chords my thumb is essentially opposite my index finger, but I think most of the pressure I use to press the chord comes from pulling my hand into the neck from my elbow, rather than pressing with my thumb.

[catdaddy]

I can play a barre chord without using thumb pressure, but it's much easier to use a modicum of thumb pressure to accomplish that and I see no disadvantage to doing it.

[fitness1]

Just curious - I think there may be a major point that needs to be clarified....

I think this could be much different if you play standing or seated.

If you are standing with the guitar anchored against your body, it would seem like it could take less thumb pressure.

I play seated in near classical position doing everything I can to keep the least contact point on the guitars body - so the guitar is "floating" a little more and likely requires more thumb pressure.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by KarenB

Where is your left thumb when you're playing a barre chord, in relation to the first finger? Does the position change as you move up the neck? A guitar teacher once told me that you should be able to barre a chord without using thumb pressure, but that has always seemed impossible to me. Thanks.

Hi Karen…

Three 1 minute videos on barre chords I did 15 years ago for friends and students…

This is certainly one way that has worked not only for me, but students as well.

Hope this adds to the discussion.

It's important to elevate the headstock which moves the fretting arm closer to the body. It also rotates the lower bout of the guitar so the strumming/picking hand is in a lower more relaxed position.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by KarenB

Where is your left thumb when you're playing a barre chord, in relation to the first finger? Does the position change as you move up the neck? A guitar teacher once told me that you should be able to barre a chord without using thumb pressure, but that has always seemed impossible to me. Thanks.

You should use thumb pressure as otherwise you would need to be pulling
the guitar neck towards you with your fretting hand which is not a good thing.

Generally on most barres the thumb is about behind the index finger. Couple of pictures I took below:

[Robin, Wales]

After around 50 years of playing guitar (on and off) my barre chords now look like this. ^^^^^

Oh well. It's safe to say that I have given up trying to play the darn things!

[Silly Moustache]

I recently had a "constructive" ? criticism on one of my YouTube videos berating me for using 1st position shapes saying that I should use barre chords and a 14 fret with a cutaway.

This is how I do barre chords :

If interested this was my response to his comment :

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by KarenB

Where is your left thumb when you're playing a barre chord, in relation to the first finger? Does the position change as you move up the neck?

The thumb should be supporting all the fingers equally. The index exerts more pressure than the other fingers, but they are all fretting. So - for me - the thumb ends up more behind the fret above the index than directly behind the index; usually between index and middle finger. But it does vary in different neck positions. Nearer the nut, it's directly opposite the fret above - partly due to foream angle, partly due the frets being further apart, so the finger pressure is spread more widely. Higher up the neck, my thumb ends up directly behind the index.

And of course it should be pointing upward, roughly parallel to the frets, not laid along the neck!

Originally Posted by KarenB

A guitar teacher once told me that you should be able to barre a chord without using thumb pressure, but that has always seemed impossible to me. Thanks.

It's not impossible, but the point of that advice is that the ideal thumb pressure is less than you think.
E.g., when I first read that idea (I'd been playing for maybe 30 years by then), I though it was ridiculous - obviously you have to use your thumb!
But I experimented. I found that if I took my right arm off the guitar entirely, so I was just holding the neck in my left hand - I found the barre needed more thumb pressure. I also tried holding a barre without the thumb, and discovered how much I needed to brace the guitar against my body with my right arm.
So that made me aware that a large part of the support for the index came from how I was bracing the guitar under my right arm - subconsciously pulling back on the right arm - to counter the equally subconscious pull-back from my left arm.

But it's still not a lot of pressure either way! The pull-back is not enough to pull the strings sharp - and the more you practice, the more your fret hand adapts so that thumb and fingers together exert the optimum (minimum) pressure required. I.e, all beginners tend to exert a death grip! Excess pressure which still often fails. But your hands are amazing tools, and they will learn their task if you just repeat the action often enough. It's a subconscious training process, the way the muscles adapt. Your hands don't really get much stronger, they just learn to focus the pressure in the right places.

So, it's definitely worth experimenting with how it feels to hold a barre with no thumb pressure at all. It obviously requires pulling back on the neck, and Rick is quite right you shouldn't be doing that too much - because it will pull the strings sharp! - but it's a good test for two things:

1. How firmly you are holding the guitar (braced under the right arm)
2. How hard you actually have to pull back to get it to work.

The classical guitar position - supporting the guitar between both legs, right arm and body - is designed to hold the neck firmly in position to free your left hand to just fret the strings, and play no part in keeping the neck in place. The fret hand does not hold the neck up! But also, to some extent, this position prevents the neck being pulled back or pushed forward. So the thumb-less barre is a good test of how efficient that position is (and whether you are getting it right).

When it comes to standard folk/rock seated position - on right leg - the guitar should ideally be held just as firmly; in a way which inhibits not only any up-down movement of the neck, but also back and forth. This is especially important for complex fingerstyle work; you really don't want the fret hand to have to keep the neck steady as well!

I discovered this when I was practising a tricky picking piece, and decided to rest my right foot on an unusually high object - an amp that happened to be on the floor in front. I was on a normal height chair and the amp is about 15" high. I found it wedged the guitar really firmly under my right arm and back against my chest, and I could suddenly play the piece much more successfully.
In fact it was that that made me realise the purpose of the classical position! It's designed not only to create the perfect guitar angle for both hands (fretting and fingerpicking), but to wedge the guitar in place.
It also made me realise why Bert Jansch (and some others) played cross-legged, right ankle on left knee, because that also wedges the guitar firmly in place. Bert also tucked the guitar back right against his hip, making it about as immobile as it can be.
I find the cross-legged position uncomfortable after a minute or two, but a high footstool under the right leg works. I tuck the guitar right back against my torso (the guitar back plays a negligible part in sound production, so holding it against your body is not a problem).

Anyway, if you really find it takes a lot of pulling back on the neck (noticeably raising the pitch of the strings) it may that your action is too high. That's the other thing that causes beginners to feel barres are ridiculously difficult - their guitars are not properly set up for minimal action.

[KarenB]

Thanks to all for your thoughts, videos and suggestions. I will try out all of them. I should have been clearer about the guitar teacher's words. If I am recalling corectly, he mde the statement about not needing to use your thumb as support in a barre chord as an exercise, not to actually play the chords that way.

[KarenB]

It would seem that the thickness of the neck, the nut width, the size of the hand would all come to play when making a barre chord. Any thoughts on this?

[rmp]

Originally Posted by KarenB

Where is your left thumb when you're playing a barre chord, in relation to the first finger? Does the position change as you move up the neck? A guitar teacher once told me that you should be able to barre a chord without using thumb pressure, but that has always seemed impossible to me. Thanks.

based on that advice, if it was me, I'd get another teacher. that's the dumbest thing I've ever read

[Charlie Bernstein]

It's usually in the middle of the neck, about two frets to the left of my forefinger — a hitchhiker thumb.

Now you know!

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by KarenB

Where is your left thumb when you're playing a barre chord, in relation to the first finger? Does the position change as you move up the neck? A guitar teacher once told me that you should be able to barre a chord without using thumb pressure, but that has always seemed impossible to me. Thanks.

Hi Karen…
In regards to being able to play a barre without using thumb pressure…that is a matter of a guitar's 'playability' (how low the action is combined with how light your strings are).

My action is set that low and is quite easy to play (the first comment people almost always make when playing my guitars). Just because I 'can' doesn't mean I don't want to add pressure.

My videos (above) are about using the combining neck height, arm & thumb position to create pressure on the barre finger without using muscles (squeezing).

People certainly use different variants of technique to play barres, and some are more work than others. The variant I've used for 60 years (and taught all my students) is designed to make playing barre chords as effortless a fingering open chords.

I came from an era where the attitude by players who could play barres was "Oh they will get it eventually…" meaning they didn't understand the dynamics of the barre technique they used well enough to describe their techniques to others.