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#16
10-10-2010, 08:09 PM
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If you're serious about earning an income from your craft and on building a solid reputation, it's wise to consider that bad news travels fast and that you only get one chance to make a good first impression.
I enthusiastically sold some early guitars, two of which were on a commission basis, in complete ignorance of the potential for conflict and ill-will, but have since reverted to building for friends and acquaintances until such time as I feel my work will stand close scrutiny. With #15 about to begin, I'm almost ready to consider selling my instruments, but then only as spec builds. I think accepting a commission with particular tonal goals in mind is going to be beyond me for a good while yet. If, of course, you have an understanding and supportive customer as you seem to have, I can only suggest that you seize the opportunity and learn all you can from the collaboration! 
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#17
10-10-2010, 09:14 PM
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I am not a luthier, but if I may give a buyers perspective..
I think you're ready to sell as soon as someone offers to buy. So long as you are honest about what you're doing I see no reason to waste an instrument someone out there may love to play and get enjoyment from. Like your buyer, I also enjoy the thought of supporting and up and comer who is willing to learn and explore new things. I find supporting people who are still looking for their "voice" is a great feeling. A good way to think of it is by asking "when is a musician ready to be a pro?" and the answer is, when he feels ready. For some people it takes massive amounts of training and classes before they are ready and for some people, a few chords are enough. At any point in a persons learning curve they will be ready to make music though, you do need to be a master to express a valid musical point or for people to enjoy listening. Don't deny people the joy of your art. Just be an honest person and it all works itself out.
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#18
10-10-2010, 10:47 PM
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It seems to me that no matter how many guitars one has built, if an instrument is represented honestly and someone wants to buy it for a particular price, there is absolutely nothing ethically wrong with that.
On the other hand one needs to be cautious of how one's children are perceived out in the world or they may never be invited for dinner again. Jim McCarthy
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#19
10-11-2010, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
A guitar, or anything else, is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and it is the customer who makes that decision. How many guitars does it take before a new builder had the ability to build a guitar someone would be willing to pay for? Builders are individuals, with all kinds of backgrounds and a variety of strengths and weaknesses. For builder A, it might take hundreds of guitars before he/she produces something that someone would be willing to pay for, and be happy with after the sale. I suspect this would be me, if I were to try my hand at guitar building.  Someone with a different background, with different skills, might find many willing customers for their very first guitar. I can't help but feel that it would be wrong to assume that all builders are alike in the rate they "mature" as builders. One thing is for certain, John. Your critic probably won't be buying anyone's first few guitars. That's his privilege, just as it is for someone else to be willing to buy your earliest ones. He only gets to decide for himself, not everyone else. cotten
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#20
10-11-2010, 10:07 AM
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If you have a client that has played and liked your guitars and wants a custom from you, you, my friend, are in business because you are satisfying a need of a customer. That is the name of the game. And, personally, I would not have even bothered to respond to a jerk! Steve
__________________
Still crazy after all these years.
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#21
10-11-2010, 11:08 AM
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I remain quite pleased with my first (a 000), second (carved archtop), and third (classical). There is no magic number.
__________________
"Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest." --Paul Simon
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#22
10-11-2010, 11:33 AM
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A carved archtop as a second guitar? That IS impressive, Howard!
"I think you're ready to sell as soon as someone offers to buy..." I like that, and benefitted from the thought. My first guitar was a commission. Odd, but true. I'd built some dulcimers, and a young man talked me into building a guitar for him. Without his unbounded enthusiasm (not to mention optimism) I might have floundered in self-doubt and inertia, never getting around to trying my hand at a guitar. Steve
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#23
10-11-2010, 12:39 PM
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I sold a few spec guitars in my early pre-teen serial numbers but most of the pre-teen and early teen guitars were given away to family and friends at church. I think I was in mid-teens before I actually got a commissioned order.
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#25
10-11-2010, 01:05 PM
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Yamaha --
In my opinion, you are ready to sell when someone is willing to buy. That evidently is the case, and in the end if both parties are happy with the transaction that's a good deal. Numbers can be way overrated. There is no guarantee that Mr X's 50th guitar will be any better than Mr. Y's 3rd. "X" may have more build experience but may never achieve the skills level "Y." Individuals are as varied as the guitars they produce. BUILD - SELL - PROSPER !!! And remember to keep that sawdust pile to a minimum.
__________________
Cranky, and living at the bottom of the barrel 
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#26
10-11-2010, 03:14 PM
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Wow. Great and varied responses. Howard, you stepped up to the plate! Thanks man!
I wish I had 100's of hours and valuable wood to give away. I don't. When I was into High End European Pellet rifles, I bought, sold and restored to pay for my hobby and the occasional food when self employment was down. I started restoring old guitars and was immediately interrupted by a once in a lifetime opportunity to buy out an equipped builder for a price I could afford. My first guitar was backwards, radiused "wrong", tone bars I was politely told by a few to to trash (except by Tim! He said give it a shot), I kept them! I spent 100's of hours building and rebuilding that guitar. Tim - you were my light! I wish you'd do classes. My guitar would have been wall art without you. What turned out was Just made for loud Southern rock. The buyer is a huge Southern Rock Fan. Duane Allman at the top of the list. I gotta say #1 was made for Southern Rock. I love the separation/clarity and growl. It's perfect for how he plays and sings. "Peach for Peace" is the #3 guitars theme. I have hired Triple C carving to do a cool headplate. You guys with so much more experience are right. I ain't a pro. I am an artist with direction some cool tools and wood, and some great friends. I will always persevere to do better. I would rather sell on Spec but Commissions pay for tools and jigs I can't afford otherwise. I won't lie to clients about "what it could look like, what it could sound like". I will note I have 450 photo's of the first build and all of the spec's. I should hit close! I hope all of my early sales are in person. Who knows? Looks like #4 might go over seas! Got a nibble  I never see me doing the show circuit. For 1 I am petrified of flying. 2) I have been self employed for 21 years. Shows only increase your prices. To Sage97; Yep My name changed. I figured if I was building I shouldn't use the Yamaha moniker. In "real life" I have been operating with a moniker of iSimon PHOTOGRAPHY for 21 years. I think its cool to FINALLY use my name; Kitchen. Can you imagine where Kitchen Photography would have gotten me? My ad; You have a living room guitar, now you need a "KITCHEN GUITAR"
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#27
10-11-2010, 03:26 PM
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I don't see much of a role for luck in this equation, unless we mean the luck to be born with the appropriate talent. To be called is a gift and a curse.
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#28
10-11-2010, 03:38 PM
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TO THE BAT CAVE TO JIG UP!
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#29
10-11-2010, 05:05 PM
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That was the problem with my 2nd guitar (Yes, 2nd guitar). Now granted it was from a friend. He wanted to pay me $2,000 for me to build him a guitar, based on my first guitar. I gave him every reason under the sun for me NOT to build him a guitar. I told him that I would be willing to make him a guitar for the cost of the materials only, but he insisted on paying me for it. He said it could help me buy some tools etc... So, of the 7 guitars I've completed and the 2 that are at 95% and 75% done, I've only "sold" two at more than material cost, but that is because that is what my customer wanted (All my guitars have gone to family or friends to date). I guess I have some good friends who believe in my building. I have 4 more guitars on the waiting list each at cost and I think after that, I may offer my guitars for sale. It's not easy to correct a mistake made early, so be careful.
__________________
Rod True, aspiring luthier My current project A guitar I built for my Father in Law The Celtic Beauty - The Epic Journey True SJ - #9
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#30
10-11-2010, 05:37 PM
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"I think you're ready to sell as soon as someone offers to buy..."
That's true - up to a point. But typically, not everyone's standards meet those of the builder. At the end of the day, it's the builder who must determine whether their instruments meet the standards they've set for themselves. John Mayes' recent thread concerning his string of prototype fingerstyle guitars captures this notion very effectively.
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