K&K + Pedal + Amp = DI?

[VJP5]

I play solely at home and primarily for myself, family, and friends. I rarely plug in. When I did it was mostly Taylor’s Expression system, LR Baggs Element, or Fishman system. Just plug in and go. I’m getting my first guitar with a K&K so I’ve been researching how others use them. Seems the consensus is that you need a DI interface of some sort (Fire Eye Red Eye or similar). Being a novice to pick- ups, I’m trying to understand why and if I need one. I just got a Digi-Tech Trio for my birthday. It has a looper, but can also add a bass line and drums. Should add a little more fun to my practices. Here are my questions:

1) Will I damage my amp or pickup without a DI?
2) If no, what am I losing, if anything, without it?
3) If I need one, where does it go in the chain? First? Last?
4) If I need one, given my totally amateur status, is there a basic (ie simple and inexpensive) one out there or do you need to spend $200?

Thanks
Vince

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by VJP5

1) Will I damage my amp or pickup without a DI?
2) If no, what am I losing, if anything, without it?
3) If I need one, where does it go in the chain? First? Last?
4) If I need one, given my totally amateur status, is there a basic (ie simple and inexpensive) one out there or do you need to spend $200?

Thanks
Vince

1) Absolutely not
2) If what you plan to plug into is designed for guitar, then you are only losing extra knobs to fiddle with, given your amp already has volume and tone controls.
3) First
4) I like the tried and true Boss GE-7, which is not a bad thing to have handy in general. The Fishman Platinum Stage EQ/DI is also in your price range and specifically targeted at acoustic guitar.

[meb]

I just posted a K&K Pure preamp on AGF Classifieds. It sounds like an
inexpensive, great option.

[L20A]

When I decided to add a pickup to my guitar, I went with the K & K mini.
I like the pickup but it was still missing something.

I posted my questions about preamps and DI's here and had someone suggest that I try a Behringer AD121 V-Tone Acoustic Driver DI.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...river-di-pedal
After looking at the specs and seeing how inexpensive it was, I bought one.

This DI does just what I needed it to do to help get the sound that I wanted from my K & K pickup.

If you don't want to spend a lot on a DI, I would suggest that you get one of these units.

[VJP5]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

1) Absolutely not
2) If what you plan to plug into is designed for guitar, then you are only losing extra knobs to fiddle with, given your amp already has volume and tone controls.

Thanks jf45. I’d spend the money if it was needed, but don’t mind saving it. 2 was my other concern. I want a good sound but I’m not a professional. I’d rather spend time playing than trying to figure out all the extra knobs

[VJP5]

Originally Posted by L20A

I like the pickup but it was still missing something.

This DI does just what I needed it to do to help get the sound that I wanted from my K & K pickup.

If you don't want to spend a lot on a DI, I would suggest that you get one of these units.

So this was more a preference (certain tone) then a requirement. Appreciate the suggestion. I’ll keep it in mind if I am in the same boat.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by VJP5

…1) Will I damage my amp or pickup without a DI?
2) If no, what am I losing, if anything, without it?
3) If I need one, where does it go in the chain? First? Last?
4) If I need one, given my totally amateur status, is there a basic (ie simple and inexpensive) one out there or do you need to spend $200?

Thanks
Vince

Hi Vince…
I often had students with a K&K Pure mini in their guitar, and they wondered if they needed a preamp. After they played without one for a while, I'd loan them one for a gig.

The pickup is just that - it picks up the guitar so you can play through the PA. A preamplifier is to adjust input volume, tone and output volumes.

I suggest you start without one, and see if your amp input volume, tone and output volume are up to the task. If not, then add a preamp.

[VJP5]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

I suggest you start without one, and see if your amp input volume, tone and output volume are up to the task. If not, then add a preamp.

Sounds like a good plan!

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by VJP5

Sounds like a good plan!

I'd add to ljguitar's excellent advice, that a DI/preamp is a tool for connecting your pickup to an input that is not designed to take the sort of signal a pickup puts out (for example, the kind of inputs one finds on the mixer channels of many PA systems). So, for you, the key question is, "what are you plugging into?" If the answer is a combo amp designed for acoustic guitar (like a Fishman Mini, etc.), then chances are you do not need a DI/preamp. Such an amp is almost certainly designed to take the output of a pickup like the K&K, and it probably has adequate tone-shaping controls as well. The input of your Digitech Trio is absolutely designed for that sort of input (I just looked it up).

The only caveat is if you feel that something is missing in the amp's tone-shaping controls--or if you are plugging into something else and have questions about that.

In any case, the main thing is to plug-in and see how it goes. It will probably go very well.

Louis

[VJP5]

Originally Posted by lschwart

...... So, for you, the key question is, "what are you plugging into?" If the answer is a combo amp designed for acoustic guitar (like a Fishman Mini, etc.), then chances are you do not need a DI/preamp. Such an amp is almost certainly designed to take the output of a pickup like the K&K, and it probably has adequate tone-shaping controls as well.....


In any case, the main thing is to plug-in and see how it goes. It will probably go very well.

Louis

Thanks Louis. I should be ok with my amp (see below). My guitar is supposed to get delivered on Thursday so I know what I'm doing this weekend...

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by VJP5

Thanks Louis. I should be ok with my amp (see below). My guitar is supposed to get delivered on Thursday so I know what I'm doing this weekend...

You're welcome!

You will almost certainly be fine plugging into that amp directly (or through your Trio, which can also go in the effects loop). If for some reason the level is too low for that amp to amplify adequately and cleanly (not likely given that a K&K is a fairly "hot" pickup--a strong output signal), a simple DI box will let you use a microphone cable into either of those inputs, and that will give you a lot more gain. As would a preamp or a preamp with a DI output.

Have fun!

Louis

[keith.rogers]

Preamps and DIs are not the same thing, though it's not uncommon that they are sometimes combined.

So, first, K&K states that their pickups sound best when matched to the correct impedance input. Having your own preamp/DI gives you more control over the sound that will go to the house. if you randomly plug into different amps, PAs, DIs, your pickup will respond based on whatever impedance is presented, and can create some frustration. Having a small, self-powered preamp means that the signal going to the house will always be the same, save whatever changes you make to gain/level/tone the pre/DI may have (or not!) as options.

Here's the part from the K&K mini manual:

"Impedance mis-match issue: Acoustic amps and most competitors’ preamps are designed to work best with undersaddle pickups or other very high ohmic piezo pickups. They feature extremely high input impedance (5-10 meg), which boosts the bass response. Most competitors’ pickups need this high input impedance to boost their weak bass response.The Pure has a strong low-end response. It is overkill to boost it. The Pure sounds best with input impedance like 500 k to 1 meg. If you experience excessive bass response, plug the Pure Pickup straight into the line input of a mixing board -- you’ll see that the excessive bass response is gone. The best option to compensate for excessive bass on an acoustic amp is to get a K&K preamp. It may still be necessary to turn down the bass control on the amplifier.

Phase issue: Use a preamp with a phase switch like the K&K Pure XLR Preamp. With properly adjusted phase, you will achieve 30-40% more volume before feedback."

[Athens]

I use a K&K in my 612 into a Fishman Loudbox Mini and it works fine without a preamp. No problem getting all the volume I need.