Inexpensive Mic for ToneDexter?

[jonfields45]

I've got an SM58 (dynamic), I can borrow a Rode NT3 (medium diaphragm condenser) from my duo partner, and the local Guitar Center has the $99 AKG P170 (small diaphragm condenser) in-stock. I could take the pop filter off the SM58 to get me closer to an SM57. The ToneDexter manual indicates small diaphragm condenser is the best choice and maybe I'll have some use for it after training.

For $100 or less, what are some good choices likely to be in-stock at Guitar Center, and is the AKG P170 one of them?

[jojobean39]

I don’t have a lot of advice on this, but my (limited) experience with my Tone Dexter has shown that the expense of the mic doesn’t necessarily matter. So far, the cheaper of my mics has yielded the best results (an SM81). The most expensive (AKG414) yielded the worst results.

[Peter Z]

My ToneDexter takes away some of the high end thus I would prefer a condenser mic. I had no luck with the dynamics I tried.
A cheap chinese mic can work great as they often have some exaggerated highs. I had my best result with a C414TLII, the one with some high frequency lift.

BUT: it depends so much on the guitar and the pickup, so maybe the SM58 works perfectly in your situation.

Also if you have an inbuilt EQ in your guitar: try to use it!
I know this is not recommended by Audio Sprockets, nevertheless it worked out perfctly in my case, even compared to the wavemaps I created with a 3000,- USD Millennia Origin preamp.
Just consider, if use use an EQ on the guitar side of the ToneDexter it works the other way around. So of you want to have more highs with the Dexter, turn them down on your guitar (or the external pre) if you like less highs, turn them up!
The wavemap is some kind of differencial signal!

If you use an external mic preamp/EQ on the mic side of the dexter, that EQ will work as usual.

[gfirob]

Some people have done well with an MXL 603s which you can get used on ebay for $50 or $60 or so. These are small diaphragm condenser microphones from China and they are a great buy for the money. I had better luck with a borrowed Ear Trumpet Edwina which is a mid-sized condenser mike, so good in fact that I finally broke down and bought one.

I found that a number of people with better mikes than I had were curious enough about the Tonedexter that they were happy to loan me the mikes if they could sit in on the training session.

Happily, the training sessions during which you make the wavemaps are so easy and fast it's pretty simple to try out different options and see what works best. I am updating a couple of wavemaps this week now that I have a new microphone..

[jojobean39]

Oh, I’ll mention this. I used a dbx RTA calibration mic ($100 new- can be purchased for $60 used) to test. On my McPherson- a very bassy, full guitar, it yielded better results than a $1000 and $600 mic. Almost sounded as good as the SM81, which was the best.

They’re really flat response mics used for EQing rooms. Anything in the range of an acoustic guitar is going to be within the really flat response portion.

I’d recommend trying that SM58 to see if you like it. What I am finding is that the price of the mic DOES NOT matter in this training.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I've got an SM58 (dynamic), I can borrow a Rode NT3 (medium diaphragm condenser) from my duo partner, and the local Guitar Center has the $99 AKG P170 (small diaphragm condenser) in-stock. I could take the pop filter off the SM58 to get me closer to an SM57. The ToneDexter manual indicates small diaphragm condenser is the best choice and maybe I'll have some use for it after training.

For $100 or less, what are some good choices likely to be in-stock at Guitar Center, and is the AKG P170 one of them?

Hi jon

The NT-3 is a great guitar mic. I own a pair, and often use them to record acoustic guitars. Plenty of detail, and a 20mm diaphragm.

Borrowing is cheaper than spending money. I'd get hold of it and try some recording some samples...

[guitaniac]

FWIW, I've been getting good enough results (for now) with a very cheap ($40 off ebay) Behringer omni-directional condenser measurement mic. I suspect, however, that one has more control over tone (via mic placement) with a directional mic.

[J Patrick]

....I got excellent results with an mxl 603...the results were significantly better than using a beta 57....and almost as good as using a sm 81

[ceciltguitar]

Just in case you have not seen this on the ToneDexter Web site:

https://audiosprockets.com/support/

Recommended mics

Shure SM81
sE Electronics sE8
Slate ML-2
Rode NT5
Line Audio CM3
Marshall MXL-600
Sterling ST-31

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by ceciltguitar

Just in case you have not seen this on the ToneDexter Web site:

https://audiosprockets.com/support/

Recommended mics

Shure SM81
sE Electronics sE8
Slate ML-2
Rode NT5
Line Audio CM3
Marshall MXL-600
Sterling ST-31

Are any of those omni-directional measurement mics? James May did say, in an AGF thread, that a cheap omni-directional measurement mic can yield good results. I wouldn't have tried it otherwise. I quote James May below.

We've tried low cost measurement mics, which are omnis that have very flat response. They work well. The cheapies, like the Dayton Audio EMM-6 ($50) have a high noise floor level which makes them unsuitable for recording, but they work fine with ToneDexter because Dexter ignores the noise during training. The TC20 would surely work.

The omnidirectional pickup pattern WILL affect the sound that the mic perceives of your instrument. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not. In our experience so far, it has been very usable at least and sometimes excellent. One thing to point out is that you need not worry about capturing more room sound with an omni., because Dexter limits how much of that is captured anyway, regardless of whether omni or cardioid pickup pattern.

[Peter Z]

Be aware that the wavemaps might be short enough to not pick up lots of room reverb but they are for sure long enough to pick up early reflections.
I have a fully trated room and when I set my mics to the omni pattern I can hear lots of room sound with the ToneDexter. As allways with the Dexter, it might work in your case but didn`t turn out too well when I recorded with omnidirectional mic settings.

IF you buy new, omnis should not be your first choice in my opinion. Someone mentioned to get used MXL 603 - excellent advise. I have 2 of them but didn't try yet. Will do in the next days. I'm pretty sure they will fit the Dexter nicely.

I don't have a SM81 but know them. They have a special (to my ears a little harder, crispier) high end that should help the Dexter. I can imagine why that mic is recommended so often.
I someone has an old AKG C451 lying around, that could be nice too. Anotherone I still have to try with the Dexter.

[guitaniac]

For some reason, I got my best results pointing the omni-directional condenser mic toward the floor, fairly close to the guitar top (around 6"). I also tried two directional dynamic mics (SM57 and Audix OM7) and an old Sony electret directional condenser mic. The Sony mic wasn't bad, but the omni-directional measurement mic worked best for my taste.

A Slate ML-2 condenser mic is in my future, but my next guitar experiment will be installing one of David Enke's Open To Source Sensor USTs. The PUTW I/O UST which he designed has proven to be very ToneDexter-compatible in a different guitar.

[rschultz]

I bought the aforementioned P170 off of Reverb for like $70 for recording, worked great. Tonedexter manual suggests small diaphragm condensers. That’s what I’d get. There’s a b-stock on Reverb for $80.

[The Kid!]

Looks like I have some more mics to try!

[ACOUSTICDEWD]

The CM3 from Line Audio is a top choice. It has literally replaced my KM84 (which will soon be sold) and presents an accurate sonic picture due to its flat frequency response. They also make an omni version. Made in Sweden by one guy and about $160

The Tonedexter is a fun toy, but still a bandaid. I'm looking to fix squawk at the source and it seems the Dazzo/SunnAudio may do the trick. I mainly want the rich lows/mids

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