A guitar especially for lowered tunings?

[AZLiberty]

Proposed scale length seems a touch short to me.
Baritones tuned B-to-b are normally 28" scale or sometimes a bit more.

So, for C-to-c i would think about 27.5, and D-to-D 26.4, I'd probably say to split the difference and go 27"

[Earl49]

I had pretty good luck with my Martin J-40 with a 0000 body when tuned down. Using medium gauge strings, that big rosewood body just LOVED to be tuned D-d. I tried but could not go further with heavier strings and tune even lower due to inherent intonation issues (misplaced bridge) and probably the 25.4" scale length. In my house there is almost always one guitar tuned down a whole step. It is easier on my voice for some songs, and just sounds cool. But to keep the tension and feel reasonable, you have to use heavier gauge strings. Currently I have an Alvarez ABT-60 to scratch the low tuned itch.

Congrats on your decision and good luck with the wait!

[tadol]

Since you are a fan of the SC 000, I’d say you should find a SC baritone and give it a try. The 27” scale works great for me with standard medium, or sometimes heavy strings, and because it’s a Santa Cruz, it sounds great too. Longer scale lengths get harder for me to play - and when you get too long, I wonder if you’re starting to describe a short scale 6 string bass -

[Quickstep192]

Originally Posted by gfspencer

My baritone 12-string is a Martin Pete Seeger. They're hard to find now.

I hear that guitar sounds like an organ. I have the 6 string version. I would love to gave the 12 as well.

[joeld]

So many variables. A baritone is just a bit too far from my realm of familiarity, I guess. Also partly an aesthetic choice, they tend to look a bit misproportioned to my eye. I definitely thought about sticking with Santa Cruz. It was actually the OMG that got me thinking about such an instrument! If the guitar I'm ordering doesn't work out for me, I'll probably go that direction providing my fortunes still allow. Right now I'm excited about having something with modern features like a sound-hole, fan-frets, non-traditional bracing ideas, that I don't think Santa Cruz would ever do!

My luthier (sounds pretentious, I know) wasn't so enthusiastic about going above 26". I do notice that 24.9" guitars have less of what I want than 25.4" guitars, so I expect to notice a 26" 6th string having nocicably a bit clearer and tighter bass. Maybe 27" would take me to heaven, but I'm afraid to go that far. So I've got a month to change my mind about things, but today it's going to be:
0000
Cocobolo B&S thinned as much as is safe to reduce weight
Lutz top
ebony fingerboard, 16" radius
Jescar Evo medium frets
Goto 510s
26" - 25.4" fan-frets centered at 6th fret
13-fret to the body for 1st string
Either C-shaped neck w/ 10% more depth than a Taylor style neck
Or similar to Martin Modified V neck shape
sharp cutaway
sound hole
1.75" @nut
2.25" @ bridge
4.25" deep
burl rosette & ebony binding
French polish, hide-glue
bolt-on mortis & tenon neck joint (builder's preference)
voiced for tight deep bass but not to overpower the treble
Rich, lush, reverby & vibrant. Not separation not a primary priority.
Stiff sides, active back style of bracing

An experiment, definitely. Ordering a custom guitar really forces a person try to pin down their preferences. Is there anything else I should try to specify?

[Villamarzia]

Originally Posted by joeld

So many variables. A baritone is just a bit too far from my realm of familiarity, I guess. Also partly an aesthetic choice, they tend to look a bit misproportioned to my eye. I definitely thought about sticking with Santa Cruz. It was actually the OMG that got me thinking about such an instrument! If the guitar I'm ordering doesn't work out for me, I'll probably go that direction providing my fortunes still allow. Right now I'm excited about having something with modern features like a sound-hole, fan-frets, non-traditional bracing ideas, that I don't think Santa Cruz would ever do!

My luthier (sounds pretentious, I know) wasn't so enthusiastic about going above 26". I do notice that 24.9" guitars have less of what I want than 25.4" guitars, so I expect to notice a 26" 6th string having nocicably a bit clearer and tighter bass. Maybe 27" would take me to heaven, but I'm afraid to go that far. So I've got a month to change my mind about things, but today it's going to be:
0000
Cocobolo B&S thinned as much as is safe to reduce weight
Lutz top
ebony fingerboard, 16" radius
Jescar Evo medium frets
Goto 510s
26" - 25.4" fan-frets centered at 6th fret
13-fret to the body for 1st string
Either C-shaped neck w/ 10% more depth than a Taylor style neck
Or similar to Martin Modified V neck shape
sharp cutaway
sound hole
1.75" @nut
2.25" @ bridge
4.25" deep
burl rosette & ebony binding
French polish, hide-glue
bolt-on mortis & tenon neck joint (builder's preference)
voiced for tight deep bass but not to overpower the treble
Rich, lush, reverby & vibrant. Not separation not a primary priority.
Stiff sides, active back style of bracing

An experiment, definitely. Ordering a custom guitar really forces a person try to pin down their preferences. Is there anything else I should try to specify?

I know it has been discussed, but if you want to keep a 25,4 lenght for high strings, I’d go for more than 26” for the lows. At least another 0,5”.. regarding missing specs: fretboard dots or inlays? Side dots? Heel cap? Are you going to install a pickup? You mention “sound hole”, did you mean “sound port”? Being a 0000, I’d recommend a bevel.. and I’d consider jumbo frets or something more than mediums. Jescar Evo frets come in several sizes..

[drive-south]

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but the Santa Cruz Bob Brozman model was designed with this in mind

[TBman]

I'd try to go a little deeper on the body, maybe 4.5 - 4.75

I have most of my guitars in DADGAD, Orkney and tunings close to Orkney.

I like using medium strings, but the 56 6th string gets a little funny when capo'd up, so on my Avalon I'm trying Elixir HD strings. Maybe the longer scale will help you in that respect.

[joeld]

Yep, sound-port rather than sound-hole. Ooops! In fact I want it to have both

Thanks for the additional items I need to add to my spec list.

I wish I could spend some time at a showroom and try a long-scale guitar. Your suggestions have me doubting my scale-length choice of 26". I do think that I want to keep the difference between 1st and 6th string length less than an inch, so maybe I'll go up to 26.25" .

The thought behind 4.25" rather than deeper is from Santa Cruz OMG, Martin M36, and Schoenberg Quartet all having a similar goal in mind and being a bit thinner. But maybe you're right, deep bass might just need more volume. I'll run it by the builder one more time (at least) and see what he thinks.

Cheers! /jd

[Lewis]

A special guitar for alternate tunings would be cool. However, a lot of more traditional guitars would handle some of the more popular tunings. I would never suggest that another guitar is not necessary (this, after all is a guitar forum).

I have a Martin 00-18V which, for some reason, seems to love alternate tunings.
With light strings I can tune up to open E and, of course handle standard tuning and drop D pretty well.

A bluegrass set or New mediums and I can handle open D, open G, Dadgad, and open C. John Pearse makes a slack key set of strings That work well too.

Or just assemble your own set: 14,17,24,32,45,59 - but stay below standard tuning with this set, to be safe.

[Dhouse335]

Spending more time with the Froggy G12... again, it is a 25.5 scale, but was presented as a drop tuning specialist.

It had 16 gauge baritone strings on it stock... really enjoyed being tuned C to C... massive fundamental and plenty of harmonics.

I just switched to 13-56 and tuned C# to C#... it's probably a bit too slinky, but it sure is fun. Talk about an acoustic blues machine. I will try it D to D this weekend hopefully.

Froggy Bottom needs no endorsement from me on their craft, but this one is special to me for 2 reasons
1) the lowered tunings do in fact open a world of ideas
2) I have always been a J200 guy and been on a quest for the best J200 for me... this one with the Jumbo, 12 fret body... it is the biggest sounding and best J200 style (it can handle strumming just fine when tuned up a bit more) I have ever encountered. That includes plenty of Gibson special editions and other builders.

It's a special instrument.

[cliff_the_stiff]

Originally Posted by joeld

Hi All,
I'm thinking about having a guitar built specificly for lowered tunings. The 6th string will be tuned to either D or C. E is right out! I'm aiming for a deep growly voiced but punchy instrument with lots of shimmer and 'reverb' in the treble. I don't need note separation and clarity, but I don't want the bass to overwhelm the high notes. I'll be fingerstyling without much style but with vigor, and a bit of clawhammer probably. No strumming in the plan at the moment.

I've been talking a bit with a builder and this is the suggestion:

0000
fan-fret with 26" to 25.5"
13-fret with cutaway
'tone port'
spruce top, slightly softer wood like Englemann or Lutz
Cocobolo B&S, or maybe Wenge
Non-radiused top
Active back & stiff sides
1.75" nut, slightly fat C-shaped neck
Ebony board & Evo frets

What do you think? Too extreme? What would you order if you wanted something like this? Would I be better off with an accordion? Cheers, /jd

I would just buy a Waterloo JK Mahogany and tune it.
To me, it nails the tone you are describing. fat neck- V profile however, not C.
I tune it to open C and it growls.

[Quickstep192]

I have a Kinnaird SJ fan fret baritone that I just put a Newtone Heritage DADGAD set on and it sounds fantastic.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by joeld

...I'm thinking about having a guitar built specifically for lowered tunings. The 6th string will be tuned to either D or C. E is right out! I'm aiming for a deep growly-voiced but punchy instrument with lots of shimmer and 'reverb' in the treble. I don't need note separation and clarity, but I don't want the bass to overwhelm the high notes...

Something like this, maybe:

[colins]

Hi Joel,

Great that you are moving forward with your guitar. Couple of comments:

Don’t feel bad about it not being a baritone, as they can sound very different to standard guitars. My baritone has a 16 inch lower bout and 27.5 inch scale, which are not that different to a standard guitar, but the tone is totally different and it pushes the music in a different direction as result. I tune B to B but your original post mentioned D and C on the sixth so I repeat, don’t feel bad about not going for a baritone.

A while back I considered buying a used guitar with a two-inch fan. I contacted (no ”reaching out” involved, as they are beyond arm’s length away!) a couple of AGFers with a lot of fan fret experience and they both told me that they would not enjoy playing something with such a pronounced fan. They preferred to have the fan at 1 inch or a little more.

You are lucky that many fine luthiers can build fan fret guitars, so you can choose a luthier on price, sound and playing feel, not specifically on the ability to do fan fret. Many luthiers tend to have a characteristic tone that is common to all their guitars. I notice this on Baraniks for example, as I own a couple and have played dozens. I assume you will have played guitars by the luthier you select and will choose her/him because of the tone and feel they offer.

It’ll be good to hear how you go!