nut width and playability comparison

[bfm612]

Hello, all. Happy August 5th.

I'm looking at the Martin DRS2, which on Acoustic Life's YouTube channel is described as being a little more difficult for people with a "smaller frame and smaller hands" due to a wider nut width (and that it's a dreadnought). I know that ideally I'd just get my hands on one and figure it out myself, but I'm trying to judge this guitar without being able to do that. COVID and all.

So, can anyone corroborate Acoustic Life's comment? I have a Yamaha FG830 which has a neck that feels perfect to me. Musician's Friend measures the FG830's and the DRS2's necks to be identical at 43mm, but the Yamaha has a scale length longer by 0.2".

So, again without having held the DRS2, should I have reason to be concerned about comfort with the DRS2 if I'm comfortable with the FG830? What other dimensions/specs would help figure me figure this out?

[charles Tauber]

Nut width is a generic measurement. It can provide some guidance as to the string spacing at the nut, but it isn't very reliable. The variables are how much space there is between the outside two strings and their respective edges of the fingerboard/bevels on the fret ends.

Two guitars can have identical nut widths and different string spacings. Most people play the string spacing, not the actual width of the neck at the nut.

A frequent question posed on this forum is whether or not one can replace the nut on a particular guitar to increase the string spacing. That depends upon the amount of clearance between the outside strings and the edges of the fingerboard/bevels on the fret ends.

[bfm612]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Two guitars can have identical nut widths and different string spacings. Most people play the string spacing, not the actual width of the neck at the nut.

That makes a ton of sense and I feel silly not having figured that out. Thank you.

[1Charlie]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Nut width is a generic measurement. It can provide some guidance as to the string spacing at the nut, but it isn't very reliable. The variables are how much space there is between the outside two strings and their respective edges of the fingerboard/bevels on the fret ends.

Two guitars can have identical nut widths and different string spacings. Most people play the string spacing, not the actual width of the neck at the nut.

A frequent question posed on this forum is whether or not one can replace the nut on a particular guitar to increase the string spacing. That depends upon the amount of clearance between the outside strings and the edges of the fingerboard/bevels on the fret ends.

I just had the nut replaced on a '49 J-50 that had been really hard for me to play. The new nut is precisely the same width (1 11/16"), but the string spacing is slightly wider (from 1 7/16" to 1 1/2").

You wouldn't think that a sixteenth of an inch would matter all that much, but it is the difference, for me, between playing clean and comfortably vs. fighting the neck and muting strings. Which, for me, is the difference between keeping it and selling it.

This will, of course, vary from guitar to guitar. But in my case, $50 for a new nut has been a game-changer.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by 1Charlie

You wouldn't think that a sixteenth of an inch would matter all that much, but it is the difference, for me, between playing clean and comfortably vs. fighting the neck and muting strings. Which, for me, is the difference between keeping it and selling it.

That's exactly how I feel. And think. And buy. Of course there are other areas to consider such as said the string spacing and the neck profile. You folks can see I own four Alvarez guitars ... only the RD-20S has the 1 11/16-inch nut width and it's the one I mostly play.

The most challenging of the bunch is the AJ-80 jumbo which has the wider nut width AND a fatter-than-normal (to me at least) neck profile. It is also a large guitar but as I understand still a smallish jumbo (sort of like an oxymoron, right, like "jumbo shrimp"). It is just intimidating for me to play, although it sounds very good I think.

I've decided to throw in the towel and in my next guitar I will look for one with the thinner nut width ... unless I get a great deal on another one, or it is one that just sounds stellar ... or it's pretty ... or I just do what I want to do.

[MickZ]

I find string spacing at the saddle a key for me.

[MartinGibsonFan]

I see the OP has guitars in his inventory.

Playability as it relates to nut width and string spacing really can't be figured out over a guitar forum (IMHO)

My suggestion?

Have patience and wait until you CAN play the guitars you want to buy (or purchase them mail order and introduce another can of worms)

Play the guitars you currently have in your fold until you can physically check things out.

Talking about what is comfortable with regards to nut width and string spacing is sort of trying to gather information about tone over the internet.

Sure, you can PROBABLY get a good idea, but there's nothing better than experiencing it in person.

J

[Br1ck]

The guitar I wish I had today, a '39 J 35, had a huge neck. I have small hands. I would have worked with it.

I own necks from 1 5/8 to 1 3/4. The 1 5/8 is probably my favorite. Since I've been playing mandolin, my pick has become much more controlled. On first play many would hate it, but I usually sing with my Texan. I gravitate to my Martin for bluegrass. I can adapt to almost anything. I find the depth and carve to be much more important than nut width.

[Wellington]

I think the Martin you are referring to will definitely have bigger feeling neck than your Yamaha, but that's just my understanding.

[MartinGibsonFan]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

The guitar I wish I had today, a '39 J 35, had a huge neck. I have small hands. I would have worked with it.

I own necks from 1 5/8 to 1 3/4. The 1 5/8 is probably my favorite. Since I've been playing mandolin, my pick has become much more controlled. On first play many would hate it, but I usually sing with my Texan. I gravitate to my Martin for bluegrass. I can adapt to almost anything. I find the depth and carve to be much more important than nut width.

That's where I find my challenge, the depth and carve of the neck.

Modified V has always been a challenge for me, but I have adjusted.

The thin Gibson necks have also been a challenge.

For me, it took some time to adjust to the Mod V and Gibson Thins, but I did.

Interestingly enough, it was pain and discomfort that caused my adjustments.

You just can't give up on an uncomfortable neck profile, you need to adjust and try to make it right.

At least that attitude has worked for me.

J

[BluesBelly]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Nut width is a generic measurement. It can provide some guidance as to the string spacing at the nut, but it isn't very reliable. The variables are how much space there is between the outside two strings and their respective edges of the fingerboard/bevels on the fret ends.

Two guitars can have identical nut widths and different string spacings. Most people play the string spacing, not the actual width of the neck at the nut.

A frequent question posed on this forum is whether or not one can replace the nut on a particular guitar to increase the string spacing. That depends upon the amount of clearance between the outside strings and the edges of the fingerboard/bevels on the fret ends.

Likewise string spacing at the saddle is also only a guideline.
The string spacing tapers narrower from the saddle to the nut. The only relevant spacing is that at which the player is most comfortable. This is true for flat picking or fingerstyle but not so much for strumming.
The player moves his picking hand along the strings until he comes to his optimal string spacing which is one that matches his picking hand muscle memory.
My optimum fingerstyle spacing is 2-1/8” which is just at the edge of the sound hole on most guitars so I find the saddle spacing irrelevant unless it is exceptionally narrow and I am playing too close to the bridge.

Blues

[stormin1155]

As others have already stated, nut width is just one factor to consider with the playability of a neck. String spacing is an important one, but also the radius of the fingerboard, the thickness of the neck, and the shape or profile of the neck. A neck with a 43mm nut width can feel slim or it can feel chunky depending on these other factors.

[bfm612]

Originally Posted by MartinGibsonFan

Playability as it relates to nut width and string spacing really can't be figured out over a guitar forum (IMHO)...
Sure, you can PROBABLY get a good idea, but there's nothing better than experiencing it in person.
J

I completely agree the best way to answer this it to actually visit a store and play the guitar, but I was sure there's still insight to be gathered based solely on nut width; I definitely see comments about this guitar being so-and-so because it has this nut width not like this other guitar. I'm probably itching to just find (or just think about) potential additions to my very little collection! The patience part is the trickiest.

[Birchtop]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Nut width is a generic measurement. It can provide some guidance as to the string spacing at the nut, but it isn't very reliable. The variables are how much space there is between the outside two strings and their respective edges of the fingerboard/bevels on the fret ends.

Two guitars can have identical nut widths and different string spacings. Most people play the string spacing, not the actual width of the neck at the nut.

A frequent question posed on this forum is whether or not one can replace the nut on a particular guitar to increase the string spacing. That depends upon the amount of clearance between the outside strings and the edges of the fingerboard/bevels on the fret ends.

This is true.

FG710s
FS820
D-35

All these have 1 11/16 nut widths. String spacing is different on all three, and is widest on the FG710s by far.

Of course these all have different saddle spacing as well.

[FrankHudson]

As this thread already displays, tastes in, and comfort with, a variety of string spacing, nut widths, and neck shapes exists. This is why it's hard for anyone to predict what you'll like or not like.

I've always been skeptical that "small hands*" require special necks, but that only means that there is one more opinion out there.

I'm more in agreement that dreadnaught bodies may not fit every player comfortably. But again, one more opinion, and even though I can manage a dread, I often prefer the sound and response of a smaller body.



*By small hands thinking here of the roughly 95% of adults. I could suppose it'd be an issue for a 6 year old, or someone at the far extreme of hand sizes.