Merging tracks: exercises for refining rhythm and phrasing for solo guitar and voice?

[@lagatrix]

Hi All,

This is the first thread for me to weave into the AGF discussion. I've learned so much here over the last year or so, as my passion for playing guitar has quickly grown. So first, thanks for sharing your enormous collective knowledge!

For those of you who sing and play solo at least some of the time, I'm wondering how you approach practicing. Obviously a big part of the lift is the interplay of voice, guitar and a metronome with a song you're working on. But have any of you found drills or exercises — or even a useful conceptual framework — that has helped you develop this particular fluency?

In my case, my vocal skill is much greater than my guitar playing ability. As a child, I sang opera on some big stages (not really my groove these days), and the experience and training I got from this left me with a strong voice, and a keen sense for harmony and phrasing. By contrast, for almost half of a century I was a perpetual beginner guitar player, noodling through basic chords and song structure. I've finally gotten relatively serious about bringing my playing skill as close to that of my singing voice as I can manage. I have a LONG way to go, but I've made significant progress with guitar in the last couple of years through diligent practice. Still, I'm finding it difficult integrate the two. It feels like I'm running on two tracks simultaneously, each overdubbing the other...

I'm curious about your thoughts and experiences.

[jpmist]

For those of you who sing and play solo at least some of the time, I'm wondering how you approach practicing. Obviously a big part of the lift is the interplay of voice, guitar and a metronome with a song you're working on. But have any of you found drills or exercises — or even a useful conceptual framework — that has helped you develop this particular fluency?

In my case, my vocal skill is much greater than my guitar playing ability. . . . I've made significant progress with guitar in the last couple of years through diligent practice. Still, I'm finding it difficult integrate the two. It feels like I'm running on two tracks simultaneously, each overdubbing the other...

Well, I'm kind of the opposite, so I hope this will be useful. I'm self-taught and happy with how far I've gotten being able to sing and play by ear and can copy quite a bit of whatever music draws my attention from the artists I enjoy. I can't quite do James Taylor note for note, but I can get close, same for Mark Knopfler.

My practice for the last 10 years consists mainly of me playing to my two mics via Garageband with headphones so I can really hear both guitar and vocals. I do about four 90 minutes sessions a week where I'll lay down a vocal and guitar track of my own songs and sometimes covers, then layer a harmony and 2nd guitar over that. Thanks to this my pitch accuracy has improved quite a bit simply because thanks to the headphones, my ears can really hone into how close I'm singing in the same scale my guitar is playing in.

If setting up a recording studio isn't quite what you have in mind, then my other suggestion is to spend some practice time simply playing and singing along with songs of artist you like. Don't stress over the exact chords and how the artist plays it, but simply get into the song's rhythm with your vocals and playing. Playing and singing harmoniously is never a conscious act so at some point you have to turn the brain off and just play. Eventually that becomes 2nd nature.

Lastly, I'm sensing you might be a tad critical of where you're at which might be self-defeating. Never stress. It'll come when it comes so just enjoy the process!

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by @lagatrix

Hi All,

This is the first thread for me to weave into the AGF discussion. I've learned so much here over the last year or so, as my passion for playing guitar has quickly grown. So first, thanks for sharing your enormous collective knowledge!

For those of you who sing and play solo at least some of the time, I'm wondering how you approach practicing. Obviously a big part of the lift is the interplay of voice, guitar and a metronome with a song you're working on. But have any of you found drills or exercises — or even a useful conceptual framework — that has helped you develop this particular fluency?

In my case, my vocal skill is much greater than my guitar playing ability. As a child, I sang opera on some big stages (not really my groove these days), and the experience and training I got from this left me with a strong voice, and a keen sense for harmony and phrasing. By contrast, for almost half of a century I was a perpetual beginner guitar player, noodling through basic chords and song structure. I've finally gotten relatively serious about bringing my playing skill as close to that of my singing voice as I can manage. I have a LONG way to go, but I've made significant progress with guitar in the last couple of years through diligent practice. Still, I'm finding it difficult integrate the two. It feels like I'm running on two tracks simultaneously, each overdubbing the other...

I'm curious about your thoughts and experiences.

I'd recommend NOT using a metronome regularly for song development and/or practice. It's OK to spot check yourself occasionally, but often great music is full of subtle timing shifts that dovetail into a song's progression and feel.

It sounds like you're ultimately working towards being a self-accompanied singer, so ditch the metronome and work to match your guitar playing with your stronger ability of singing. Simple strum patterns can later be added to with connecting bass runs and then melodic notes woven into the chord structure.

There are lots of Youtube recordings that you can study to gain insight into how this is done, and probably none better than listening to Maybelle Carter and also the works of The Carter Family.

Keep at it and you'll soon be able to notice your improvement. A small recorder is good for listening back to determine what areas need the most work.

[musicman1951]

To any audience (including pets at home) the vocal will always be more important than the accompaniment, but I think I understand where you are.

I'm presuming you've practiced the guitar parts enough that they're fairly comfortable on their own. I don't see a solution other than performing guitar/vocal together more. I think it gets easier in the doing. I usually play piano with lead sheets w/chord symbols. When I play legit piano music with any difficulty I need to learn the left hand part separately. Eventually there is no substitute for putting the hands together. Slower tempos help, but that might be strange with vocals.

You might want to try to keep the guitar part fairly simple until things start to click and then add more interest as time passes.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by @lagatrix

....Still, I'm finding it difficult integrate the two. It feels like I'm running on two tracks simultaneously, each overdubbing the other...

I'm curious about your thoughts and experiences.

You are running two tracks simultaneously!

Firstly, I wish that I had a great voice - guitar can be learnt.

When you sang opera, the orchestra provided the support for you. And you would sing phrases that moved away from the orchestra and then came back at specific points. It is the same with playing guitar. You don't want to be strumming syllables - you want that solid rhythm* going on then phrase the voice over it. Imaging that you had a friend playing guitar while you sang. Think what you would want from them to back you, and how you would sing the song. The only difference is that you have to do both jobs. So you need the guitar part down solid and non-conscious. You need to be two people playing and singing as one. When you listen to a good guitar accompaniment on a recording you should not be able to tell if the singer and guitar player were the same person or two people. So play the guitar as if you were playing for another singer - then be that singer.

Originally Posted by Rudy4

....I'd recommend NOT using a metronome regularly for song development and/or practice. It's OK to spot check yourself occasionally, but often great music is full of subtle timing shifts that dovetail into a song's progression and feel.....

I wouldn't agree with all of this. In this case, the metronome is not necessarily providing just timing (although it is) as its No1 priority. What it is making the player/singer do is listen to the guitar's output in real time and match that to a 3rd source whilst singing phrases that move in and out of time - coming back to the beat at crucial points.

So I would certainly keep using the metronome - there is squat chance of it making you "metronimic" but it will help drive your guitar work into your non-conscious so you can free up your singing phrases to have those subtle timing shifts Rudy4 talks about.

* When I say "solid rhythm* I don't mean strumming to fill the sound space. A solid rhythm can be very, very sparse with lots of holes, as long as it is "predicable" to the listener - particularly if your sung phrases are not going to be predictable.

[Mr. Jelly]

Down stroke on the one.

I have been thinking about this for a while as I see and have come to know people at open mics that have real issues with rhythm. It has thrown me for a loss. What I perceive is to back up and get real elemental about the whole thing and start over. You say you have the voice. That's great! Chose a song that has easy and few chords. Play one down strum only on the down beat of each chord change but no more. One strum while you sing. Real sparse sounding type of thing. That's your base. After you can do that try two strums. Actually, if you can sing you don't need much guitar. It seems to get in the way for allot of people.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by @lagatrix

Hi All,

This is the first thread for me to weave into the AGF discussion. I've learned so much here over the last year or so, as my passion for playing guitar has quickly grown. So first, thanks for sharing your enormous collective knowledge!

For those of you who sing and play solo at least some of the time, I'm wondering how you approach practicing. Obviously a big part of the lift is the interplay of voice, guitar and a metronome with a song you're working on. But have any of you found drills or exercises — or even a useful conceptual framework — that has helped you develop this particular fluency?

In my case, my vocal skill is much greater than my guitar playing ability. As a child, I sang opera on some big stages (not really my groove these days), and the experience and training I got from this left me with a strong voice, and a keen sense for harmony and phrasing. By contrast, for almost half of a century I was a perpetual beginner guitar player, noodling through basic chords and song structure. I've finally gotten relatively serious about bringing my playing skill as close to that of my singing voice as I can manage. I have a LONG way to go, but I've made significant progress with guitar in the last couple of years through diligent practice. Still, I'm finding it difficult integrate the two. It feels like I'm running on two tracks simultaneously, each overdubbing the other...

I'm curious about your thoughts and experiences.

I was more or less in the same situation ( spent 40 years just strumming chords to accompany my singing) except I do not have a great voice
In singing I could carry a tune (I assume sing the melody) while strumming basic chord progressions (I assume the harmony)

Through a set of work circumstances I spent 18 months away from home and had a basement to practice in...
Being away from home family and all the distractions of that,, and all my recreational hobbies etc I was able to implement a very regular and steady practice regime.
2 to 4 hours a nite ,,5 to 6 nites a week I was practicing with the intent of performing gigs so I was relentless about learning the songs both lyrics and chord changes so I could play them without cheat sheets and without thinking about either the next chord,, or the next word.

When I got to that point with the songs was when two things started happening..
#1 I could focus on how my singing could complement the feel portrayed by the meaning in the lyrics =Prosody
# 2 since the chord changes were now in muscle memory I naturally started to initiate little note embellishments in the transition between chords from additional notes to hammer on and pull offs and just hitting consecutive strings in an up or down run ,,, etc.
Also (and I am not totally certain how this plays a part but it may ) at that same time I got into home recording which was IMO very educational into to how I sounded to others thru a PA or recording system

Kinda like this : please ignore the 4 second video glitch..

[Kyle215]

You might look into Chris Eldridge’s course over on ArtistWorks… it’s officially a bluegrass guitar course, but the first few modules will get you blending some melody notes with the rhythm strums (Carter style). Once you get that down, it can open a lot of doors.

[@lagatrix]

Wow, thanks to all of you for giving me a lot to think about and work with here.

Several mention recording oneself as a practice/self-analysis tool. I've heard this suggested before, and I think I've been resistant to it because of my perfectionist tendencies... but this might be part of what would be helpful about it, to learn to be honest with myself/easier on myself about where I am in this journey.

Also helpful is the reminder to listen carefully and learn from the masters. It's interesting that the Carters came up here, as I'm just beginning to get somewhere with melody strumming—and additionally, although it wasn't exactly Maybelle's approach, I've been practicing as close an approximation as I can muster of Eric Skye's cross picked arrangement of Wildwood Flower. I'm beginning to get comfortable enough with the tune on the guitar to sing.

And speaking of Eric Skye, I was persuaded by his approach to the value of regular metronome use (see Eric Skye Thirty Day Guitar Challenge on YouTube).
He sees it as a tool to enhance one's perception of rhythm as an organic, and fluid aspect of musical structure. I think it's less about becoming a clock, and more about using it to help feel the behind and the ahead, the pocket. He suggests using the canned beat of the metronome on the second and forth beats of the measure, so that one can establish, maintain and manipulate the thrust of the rhythm oneself.

I'm going to explore MR Jelly's ideas of building the relationship between voice and guitar from the super sparse and simple towards greater complexity.

And prosody, what a wonderful word to chew on... Beautiful job with You Ain't Goin' Nowhere, Kev.