A new non invasive pickup from LR Bagg

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

The guy in the video points out that it sounds just like his guitar, so maybe it is VP tech.

I've heard tell of young singers who have learned to sing as if they've been autotuned. Maybe there are guitars now that sound like a piezo all on their own. The original Ovations sorta did.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I've heard tell of young singers who have learned to sing as if they've been autotuned. Maybe there are guitars now that sound like a piezo all on their own. The original Ovations sorta did.

I think he means that it sounds more natural than an undersaddle pickup.

[Robin, Wales]

I must be completely missing something here? I listen and listen and all I'm hearing is a buzzy, squared off, compressed electronic timbre, that's just like you'd get from a piezo p/u, and has absolutely no relationship to how the guitar would sound if you were standing in the room?

And the term "non invasive"? Surely drilling into the heel block to fit a jack plug is invasive? Why would that not be considered invasive?

What am I missing here? Sometimes I think that I must be on another planet! You spend $5k+ on getting a beautiful sounding finely crafted acoustic instrument then drill a hole in it, stick in a p/u, and get the same signal at the end of the chain that you could generate using a $300 Yamaha as the starting point.

If this video had compared the p/u direct with the mic' in the room the difference would be night and day.

I really struggle to get this at all?

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

I must be completely missing something here? I listen and listen and all I'm hearing is a buzzy, squared off, compressed electronic timbre, that's just like you'd get from a piezo p/u, and has absolutely no relationship to how the guitar would sound if you were standing in the room?

And the term "non invasive"? Surely drilling into the heel block to fit a jack plug is invasive? Why would that not be considered invasive?

What am I missing here? Sometimes I think that I must be on another planet! You spend $5k+ on getting a beautiful sounding finely crafted acoustic instrument then drill a hole in it, stick in a p/u, and get the same signal at the end of the chain that you could generate using a $300 Yamaha as the starting point.

If this video had compared the p/u direct with the mic' in the room the difference would be night and day.

I really struggle to get this at all?

I think you need to subtract the output jack from the equation as 99% of pickups need one. By non-invasive, it just means a pickup that most likely can be stuck on with adhesive tape meaning it can be removed. I also take non-invasive as meaning that it does not add any real weight to the guitar and does not modify the saddle.

I also think we need to listen to more demos before we make any conclusions. There are a couple of issues with a demo like this. One, we have no idea how the guy in the video is recording the pickup. Yes, it's direct but he even admitted in the comments that he could have warmed up the tone but likes the high end presence. Whenever you have some treble added, it's bound to give a piezo tone.

Second and most importantly, I would like for anyone to show me a pickup that sounds good direct. Even the Anthem, which is quite natural, still has a piezo quality when direct.

Out of curiousity, what pickup would you use on a $5k acoustic? I am not defending this new Baggs offering as I know little about it, I am just trying to understand your perspective.

[jricc]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I think you need to subtract the output jack from the equation as 99% of pickups need one. By non-invasive, it just means a pickup that most likely can be stuck on with adhesive tape meaning it can be removed. I also take non-invasive as meaning that it does not add any real weight to the guitar and does not modify the saddle.

I also think we need to listen to more demos before we make any conclusions. There are a couple of issues with a demo like this. One, we have no idea how the guy in the video is recording the pickup. Yes, it's direct but he even admitted in the comments that he could have warmed up the tone but likes the high end presence. Whenever you have some treble added, it's bound to give a piezo tone.

Second and most importantly, I would like for anyone to show me a pickup that sounds good direct. Even the Anthem, which is quite natural, still has a piezo quality when direct.

Yes to all of this. A lot of conclusions have been drawn on the basis of one video.
This pickup could be good OR it could be more of the same old, ie a contact pickup thing.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

I must be completely missing something here? I listen and listen and all I'm hearing is a buzzy, squared off, compressed electronic timbre, that's just like you'd get from a piezo p/u, and has absolutely no relationship to how the guitar would sound if you were standing in the room?

And the term "non invasive"? Surely drilling into the heel block to fit a jack plug is invasive? Why would that not be considered invasive?

What am I missing here? Sometimes I think that I must be on another planet! You spend $5k+ on getting a beautiful sounding finely crafted acoustic instrument then drill a hole in it, stick in a p/u, and get the same signal at the end of the chain that you could generate using a $300 Yamaha as the starting point.

If this video had compared the p/u direct with the mic' in the room the difference would be night and day.

I really struggle to get this at all?

I agree with your summation on the pickup demonstrated in the video. Hopefully it bears little relation to what's actually going to be presented by Baggs, although I'm skeptical, of course.

Any passive system can be installed with the "Vintage jack end pin", so drilling a hole isn't absolutely necessary.

Many purists don't like the K&K pickup installed with epoxy and cite it as being "invasive". Any good tech can pull the strings and remove the K&K transducers with minimal amounts of epoxy remaining. What's left can be removed by using a scraper on the bridge plate leaving only a stain behind. Is a stain on the bridge plate "invasive"? Not to me, YMMV.

Why spend 5 grand and add a pickup? That's simply a matter of playing what you love, both at home and on stage. A pickup is simply a whole bunch easier to use than a microphone for all the reasons that commonly heard.

I, for one, am quite happy to use a K&K Pure Mini for any amplification needs I have. I also use it at home with my looper for doing quick backing tracks and as a songwriting aid.

All of the above would be part of what you may or may not be "missing".

[Robin, Wales]

I am being deliberately challenging, and quiet rightly so. I have seen many professional acts fill up to a 5000 seater with just a mic', and many professional acts plug in at tiny venues. Both scenarios were absolutely fine from the audience perspective.

I do believe that a lot of acoustic guitar players, who are amature to semi-pro, could use a stage mic' and get a much better timbre out front than from plugging in. But....... Folks love kit!

So we search for ways to plug in our guitars that will give us the timbre of using a stage mic' (ir's, stomp boxes, Di, pre-amp etc) when we could just learn to use a stage mic', and all would work out fine!

In answer to the question above "What pickup would I put into a $5000 guitar". My answer would be an SM58.

[Forest Dweller]

Sounds just like a horrible sound hole pickup to me- very electric guitar like, no mids

Robbie

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

I am being deliberately challenging, and quiet rightly so. I have seen many professional acts fill up to a 5000 seater with just a mic', and many professional acts plug in at tiny venues. Both scenarios were absolutely fine from the audience perspective.

I do believe that a lot of acoustic guitar players, who are amature to semi-pro, could use a stage mic' and get a much better timbre out front than from plugging in. But....... Folks love kit!

So we search for ways to plug in our guitars that will give us the timbre of using a stage mic' (ir's, stomp boxes, Di, pre-amp etc) when we could just learn to use a stage mic', and all would work out fine!

In answer to the question above "What pickup would I put into a $5000 guitar". My answer would be an SM58.

That's gonna do a lot of damage bouncing around in there.

I have pulled the element from an SM58 and mounted it inside a Cajun accordion, but it was fastened to a reed block.

[AeroUSA]

I have some more information and will discuss it in my livestream today.

[jricc]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I have some more information and will discuss it in my livestream today.

Cool, thanks for the Baggs pickup info Aaron. Sounds promising. My busy season is coming up and I'm hoping for a good new pickup system.

[martingitdave]

Thanks for sharing that information with us Aaron. I suspect I'll give this new pickup a try when it comes out. One of the things that makes the passive K&K so "hot" is the glued in installation. However, I am not a fan of their internal active impedance correcting preamp. It's so hot, you can barely turn it up! The tape install will necessarily make the passive part of the new LR Baggs system quieter, but if they pair it with a good preamp, it might sound nice. We pickup Geeks don't need a lot to get us excited.

[Petty1818]

Thanks Aaron. I have to give Baggs credit for listening to musicians. I agree that there's only so far pickups can go and IMO, it's all about designing something that checks as many boxes as possible. I can't tell you how many times I have thought about getting the K&K only to talk myself out of it. I have also tried the Amulet and the install/hit or miss approach just got to be annoying. The Lyric was a step in the right direction but just lacked bass.

For me, I am just tired of the SBT experimentation. It's either a crap shoot due to placement or it's a feedback issue concern. I have tried to give UST or dual source systems with a UST a try, but undersaddle pickups just always sound thin and brittle to me. I am also getting tired of trying to make Matrix systems work. It seems as though I always get grounding issues due to the Matrix having a thin foil coating that's easily damaged.

I try to not get too optimistic as I am often let down, but so far, I like what I am hearing. Not sure I get the affordable part though. $199.00 means it will be over $300 after tax here in Canada. I guess that's affordable these days though!

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Thanks Aaron. I have to give Baggs credit for listening to musicians. I agree that there's only so far pickups can go and IMO, it's all about designing something that checks as many boxes as possible. I can't tell you how many times I have thought about getting the K&K only to talk myself out of it. I have also tried the Amulet and the install/hit or miss approach just got to be annoying. The Lyric was a step in the right direction but just lacked bass.

For me, I am just tired of the SBT experimentation. It's either a crap shoot due to placement or it's a feedback issue concern. I have tried to give UST or dual source systems with a UST a try, but undersaddle pickups just always sound thin and brittle to me. I am also getting tired of trying to make Matrix systems work. It seems as though I always get grounding issues due to the Matrix having a thin foil coating that's easily damaged.

I try to not get too optimistic as I am often let down, but so far, I like what I am hearing. Not sure I get the affordable part though. $199.00 means it will be over $300 after tax here in Canada. I guess that's affordable these days though!

I agree, I have been disappointed by most SBT type pickups for different reasons so I am just keeping an open mind. Specs-wise it is exactly what I would have designed myself though. I should have a demo unit in the next few weeks and can give you a first-hand experience with it.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Of course, another gently played fingerstyle demo, and wouldn't ya know it,

Exactly what I was thinking. Pretty much ANY pickup sounds pretty good with gentle finger picking. This video is pretty useless IMO. But I think this is just Baggs version of a K&K style non-invasive pickup that is active. I don't expect this to dethrone the Anthem as the top choice for a gigging musician. It's just a better K&K for a little more money. Nothing to get too excited about.