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Old 03-21-2023, 02:14 PM
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SprintBob SprintBob is offline
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Default The Art and Beauty of Melodic Flatpicking

Watching this video of flatpicking virtuoso Carl Miner play one of many beautiful arrangements on Youtbue of his playing makes me want to add this style of playing to my acoustic journey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45RGiM_8-7g&t=59s

But it seems often if you want to become a proficient flatpicker, the default route is bluegrass style playing which is not really my preference in music. At this time, I am really enjoying working through Eric Skye's fiddle tune course on Homespun so next I'm hoping I can find some instructional material or arrangement similar to the style Carl is playing here which I am calling solo melodic flatpicking.

I do have a couple of the Flatpicking Essentials course books but again, they seem more rooted in bluegrass style playing and material.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Cheers.
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Old 03-21-2023, 03:13 PM
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Music more or less in that sort of style has always been what I want to create on guitar. Or for that matter mandolin back when I was into that. Initially, like 20 years ago, I thought my best route to follow with guitar was playing with my finger(nail)s. First with nylon strings and pretty quickly on to steel-string acoustic, more recently on a Telecaster. But I want to do with it a flatpick and then learn to incorporate fingers in a hybrid picking style.

I love fiddle tunes, I like playing fiddle tunes, fiddle tunes are always fun. But to the extent I can really express the music I hear in my head it's not June Apple, it's flowing, melodic stuff like Carl Miner does so well. Or to name-check another player who is a big inspiration to me in spite of being in another universe to any skills I'll ever have, listening to Tony Rice in his more lyrical material can just make my life better in ways on great music can do.

It's weird how a descriptive, rather straightforward term like "Flatpicking" eventually gets locked up in a cage where everyone seems to agree it means a very specific repertoire, played in a certain way. When in reality, in my opinion it ought to cover anyone who makes music with a guitar by using a flatpick.
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Last edited by Brent Hutto; 03-21-2023 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 03-21-2023, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Brent Hutto View Post
Music more or less in that sort of style has always been what I want to create on guitar. Or for that matter mandolin back when I was into that. Initially, like 20 years ago, I thought my best route to follow with guitar was playing with my finger(nail)s. First with nylon strings and pretty quickly on to steel-string acoustic, more recently on a Telecaster. But I want to do with it a flatpick and then learn to incorporate fingers in a hybrid picking style.

I love fiddle tunes, I like playing fiddle tunes, fiddle tunes are always fun. But to the extent I can really express the music I hear in my head it's not June Apple, it's flowing, melodic stuff like Carl Miner does so well. Or to name-check another player who is a big inspiration to me in spite of being in another universe to any skills I'll ever have, listening to Tony Rice in his more lyrical material can just make my life better in ways on great music can do.

It's weird how a descriptive, rather straightforward term like "Flatpicking" eventually gets locked up in a cage where everyone seems to agree it means a very specific repertoire, played in a certain way. When in reality, in my opinion it ought to cover anyone who makes music with a guitar by using a flatpick.
We see our worlds very similarly. I'll never be a singer and solo acoustic fingerstyle has been a wonderful creative outlet and journey for me and always will be. I'd like for what I want to call as solo acoustic flatpicking to be the same.

I'm still loving playing fiddle tunes but I might check back in with Truefire and Homespun for alternate material.
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Old 03-22-2023, 08:11 AM
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I love playing that kind of music. Carl Minor is my recent guitar hero. I got hooked on Norman Blake many years ago and I will always be a huge fan. Part of my attraction to him has been the more melodic music that Norman has done. I was distracted by the flatpicking and old-time country aspects. It's all amazing and accessible. Norman is up in age now, so he is not as active in the same way that he used to be. Carl doesn't appear to have any CDs or product to sell so I am stuck with only the YouTubes. I love his noodles. I always felt like playing my melodic noodles wasn't real music, like it was a guilty pleasure. I am constantly being called by my melodic noodling music and I plan on doing allot more once my latest performing phase slows down. I can see now that it has value.
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Old 03-22-2023, 09:04 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SprintBob View Post
Watching this video of flatpicking virtuoso Carl Miner play one of many beautiful arrangements on Youtbue of his playing makes me want to add this style of playing to my acoustic journey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45RGiM_8-7g&t=59s

But it seems often if you want to become a proficient flatpicker, the default route is bluegrass style playing which is not really my preference in music. At this time, I am really enjoying working through Eric Skye's fiddle tune course on Homespun so next I'm hoping I can find some instructional material or arrangement similar to the style Carl is playing here which I am calling solo melodic flatpicking.

I do have a couple of the Flatpicking Essentials course books but again, they seem more rooted in bluegrass style playing and material.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Cheers.
I think you're pretty much on the mark, Sprintbob.

I always appreciated seeing a good flatpicker do bluegrass style solos, but it always seems to be a bit too much like watching a player like Steve Vai, which I think of as being more akin to gymnastics than a style that I would consider for its "musicality".

I'm self-taught and my preference is certainly what I would refer to as melodic chord style. To me the song or tune form is first defined by the chord structure and then the melody is woven into that form. For my own playing I usually work out songs by doing both chords and melody at the same time.

Here's a better example of that methodology, again by Carl Miner:



Here's a quick example of how I do tunes by using that method. I'm a big fan of "fiddle tunes and/or old time music, so this one is my version of Elzic's Farewell".


Last edited by Rudy4; 03-22-2023 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 03-22-2023, 09:39 AM
H165 H165 is offline
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I'd first listen to Russ Barenberg's albums like Moving Pictures, When at Last, Sip, Hop & Wobble, & Halloween Rehearsal, and then, if you like the tunes, get the instructional media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9DsUVHEcrk
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Old 03-22-2023, 10:00 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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"Big Sciota" from Skip, Hop, and Wobble has been one of my all-time fovorite fiddle tunes every since its release. It's a "new" rendition of an older standard but these guys take it in a whole nother direction.
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Old 03-22-2023, 10:50 AM
aK_bAsh7 aK_bAsh7 is offline
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It's weird how a descriptive, rather straightforward term like "Flatpicking" eventually gets locked up in a cage where everyone seems to agree it means a very specific repertoire, played in a certain way. When in reality, in my opinion it ought to cover anyone who makes music with a guitar by using a flatpick.[/QUOTE]

And this also extends to how dreads are marketed and demo'd. Seems every shop posting on youtube assumes anyone looking for a dread is a Bluegrass player! I grew up in the 60's/70's so my associations with dreads are all singer songwriters-- not Bluegrass players.
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Old 03-22-2023, 01:45 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aK_bAsh7 View Post
It's weird how a descriptive, rather straightforward term like "Flatpicking" eventually gets locked up in a cage where everyone seems to agree it means a very specific repertoire, played in a certain way. When in reality, in my opinion it ought to cover anyone who makes music with a guitar by using a flatpick.
I'll take the Wikipedia definition.
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Old 03-22-2023, 02:44 PM
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Brent Hutto Brent Hutto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
I think you're pretty much on the mark, Sprintbob.

I always appreciated seeing a good flatpicker do bluegrass style solos, but it always seems to be a bit too much like watching a player like Steve Vai, which I think of as being more akin to gymnastics than a style that I would consider for its "musicality".

I'm self-taught and my preference is certainly what I would refer to as melodic chord style. To me the song or tune form is first defined by the chord structure and then the melody is woven into that form. For my own playing I usually work out songs by doing both chords and melody at the same time.

Here's a better example of that methodology, again by Carl Miner:



Here's a quick example of how I do tunes by using that method. I'm a big fan of "fiddle tunes and/or old time music, so this one is my version of Elzic's Farewell".

Rudy,

Love your Elzic. It's a tune I've been kind of into lately (I play it on a Telecaster, myself) and it really does have a different sound and feel when different players interpret it.

Scott Nygaard does a great version but it's a totally different feel from yours or the way I try to play it. Michael Daves has a really "out there" electric version that you'd have to hear to believe. And my guitar teacher plays it yet another way.

My guitar hero Bill Frisell makes a guest appearance on the Elzic's Farewell track of a Chip Taylor album. His (Frisell's) intro cuts right to the essential core of the tune, as he tends to be able to do effortlessly with so many traditional and pop music songs.

It's all played with a flatpick but might as well be different songs, the sounds and flow are so different.
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Old 03-24-2023, 05:49 PM
LJOHNS LJOHNS is offline
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I love that style of playing. Check out some of Tony Rice’s jazzy stuff with the Tony Rice Unit. Mind blowing!

Last edited by LJOHNS; 03-24-2023 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 03-25-2023, 08:13 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brent Hutto View Post
Rudy,

Love your Elzic. It's a tune I've been kind of into lately (I play it on a Telecaster, myself) and it really does have a different sound and feel when different players interpret it.

Scott Nygaard does a great version but it's a totally different feel from yours or the way I try to play it. Michael Daves has a really "out there" electric version that you'd have to hear to believe. And my guitar teacher plays it yet another way.

My guitar hero Bill Frisell makes a guest appearance on the Elzic's Farewell track of a Chip Taylor album. His (Frisell's) intro cuts right to the essential core of the tune, as he tends to be able to do effortlessly with so many traditional and pop music songs.

It's all played with a flatpick but might as well be different songs, the sounds and flow are so different.
Hi Brent, Thanks for the comments and suggestions of alternate versions. I traced them all down on Youtube for a listen. All quite different, of course.

So many of the examples that pop up from a search are more geared to the idea of straight flatpicked guitar. I make the distinction between melodic flatpicking and straight flatpicking in the sense that melodic flatpicking has more of the chord structure incorporated into it. So many of the bluegrass flatpicking solos are incredably well done and complex in their execution, but wouldn't stand on their own if there was no supporting structure of other players that are framing the solos with chords and rhythm.

I'll present a Norman Blake version of Elzic's Farewell to bring this back to what I THINK SprintBob was referring to in the original post. This is an OLD video, but it demonstrates the concept pretty well. You do have to tune out Nancy's guitar accompaniment, but you can hear Blake interspersing chords within his picking. In other words, it would stand on its own when listened to. It's easier to discern when the camera is focused on his playing. You can see his melody picked as his hand forms the chords, even as he plays higher up the neck. Of course, he's Norman Blake, though.


Last edited by Rudy4; 03-25-2023 at 08:19 AM.
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  #13  
Old 03-25-2023, 10:01 AM
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Brent Hutto Brent Hutto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
Hi Brent, Thanks for the comments and suggestions of alternate versions. I traced them all down on Youtube for a listen. All quite different, of course.

So many of the examples that pop up from a search are more geared to the idea of straight flatpicked guitar. I make the distinction between melodic flatpicking and straight flatpicking in the sense that melodic flatpicking has more of the chord structure incorporated into it. So many of the bluegrass flatpicking solos are incredably well done and complex in their execution, but wouldn't stand on their own if there was no supporting structure of other players that are framing the solos with chords and rhythm.

I'll present a Norman Blake version of Elzic's Farewell to bring this back to what I THINK SprintBob was referring to in the original post. This is an OLD video, but it demonstrates the concept pretty well. You do have to tune out Nancy's guitar accompaniment, but you can hear Blake interspersing chords within his picking. In other words, it would stand on its own when listened to. It's easier to discern when the camera is focused on his playing. You can see his melody picked as his hand forms the chords, even as he plays higher up the neck. Of course, he's Norman Blake, though.

I think I will adopt your dichotomy of "melodic flatpicking" versus "bluegrass flatpickig" (or what I might call "straight" flatpicking). That's a useful distinction, although like all things about music I'm sure there's people who blur the line with their playing.
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Old 03-25-2023, 08:05 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brent Hutto View Post
I think I will adopt your dichotomy of "melodic flatpicking" versus "bluegrass flatpickig" (or what I might call "straight" flatpicking). That's a useful distinction, although like all things about music I'm sure there's people who blur the line with their playing.
Oh yeah! Blurred, smeared, fuzzed, muddied, and just about everything in between "straight" and "melodic"!

You can find examples of all those in between players as well as those that embrace the extremes at either end.

An good example of "straight flatpicking" is any solo by Billy Strings. A technical wonderkund, you won't find much chordal punctuation.

Hopefully no one will take offense at my ramblings. What do I know?
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Old 03-29-2023, 06:14 AM
Skarsaune Skarsaune is offline
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... So many of the bluegrass flatpicking solos are incredably well done and complex in their execution, but wouldn't stand on their own if there was no supporting structure of other players that are framing the solos with chords and rhythm...
Jake Eddy - another young speedburner flatpicker - just released a live album, Live at Spanish Ballroom. It's just him and his guitar, live without a net.

What I've really enjoyed about it is the melodic content, and how he's able to carry tunes solo, conveying both the melody and the supporting chordal structure. He does hit the afterburners occasionally, but it's remarkably restrained.

Take a listen, you may enjoy it. It's streaming the usual places; I listened to it via YouTube.
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