L.R. Baggs M80 vs Sunrise S-2

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Yamaha Man

... I'm using the passive mode because I don't want to depend on a battery. However the passive mode is a bit quieter than the active mode.

One other thing... in active mode, the M80's preamp acts as an electronic "buffer" between the pickup and the venue's DI, meaning the M80 will sound pretty much the same anywhere. With passive preamp-less pickups you're probably going to experience a lot more inconsistency from venue to venue.

[Al Acuff]

The Sunrise is far more resistant to feedback if that matters to you. I gigged for decades with a Sunrise pickup and have also used a Baggs M80. IMHO both sound good.

Something else to consider is that if you tap the M80 with a pick it makes a loud amplified click. If you hit the Sunrise with your thumbpick you will not hear that through your PA.

Those who say the Sunrise sounds "electric" haven't been to hear Lyle Lovette and his Large Band. Lyle uses Sunrise pickups with Demeter Tube DIs. The ultra high input impedance of the Tube Di extends the frequency response of the Sunrise so that it sounds surprisingly natural.

Also keep in mind that with all guitar pickups including Sunrise and Baggs pickups are guitar dependent. The better the guitar the better the pickup will sound.

The DiMarzio Black Angel is also an excellent pickup. It's lighter and less bulky compared with a Sunrise and it sounds great. And for what its worth the Black Angel seems to be a bit less fussy about what you plug it in to. It was designed for playing through a PA.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Al Acuff

The DiMarzio Black Angel is also an excellent pickup. It's lighter and less bulky compared with a Sunrise and it sounds great. And for what its worth the Black Angel seems to be a bit less fussy about what you plug it in to. It was designed for playing through a PA.

What a co-inky-dink -- I heard a Black Angel a few nights ago, loved it, just ordered one. I like my M80 but once in a while I do whack it. The Black Angel's fully passive so we'll see if that matters, might end up adding a pre of some sort as a buffer.

[Al Acuff]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

What a co-inky-dink -- I heard a Black Angel a few nights ago, loved it, just ordered one. I like my M80 but once in a while I do whack it. The Black Angel's fully passive so we'll see if that matters, might end up adding a pre of some sort as a buffer.

Enjoy your new pickup and please let us know how it works out. Mine is passive and it sounds good plugged in direct without a preamp.

PS. Another feature of the Black Angel is that you can unplug the cable from the pickup and you get both a long cable and a wiring harness with endpin jack. With a Sunrise the cable is hard wired. If you are running the cable out of the soundhole it's nice to be able to unplug the cable before putting the guitar in its case.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Al Acuff

Enjoy your new pickup and please let us know how it works out. Mine is passive and it sounds good plugged in direct without a preamp.

PS. Another feature of the Black Angel is that you can unplug the cable from the pickup and you get both a long cable and a wiring harness with endpin jack. With a Sunrise the cable is hard wired. If you are running the cable out of the soundhole it's nice to be able to unplug the cable before putting the guitar in its case.

I'm hoping there's a tonal difference and not just less mechanical sensitivity. I've got an old Bill Lawrence mag that sounds very "jazz box," and the M80 is kind of in-between, hoping for a 3rd flavor with the DiMarzio.

[Brent Hahn]

So I got the DiMarzio, swapped it in for the M80... I really don't care for it. I recorded a bunch of each (DI) and there's a fairly big difference. The M80 sounds "woodier." I often play pretty percussively, and the M80 gives me a cajon-like thump. With the DiMarzio, it's almost a piezo quack. Also, when I play hard the Baggs compresses a bit compared to the DiMarzio -- the DiMarzio has more dynamic range, spikier peaks, might be great for some players but not for me. I'm sure it's fixable but the balances of the string volumes with the DiMarzio, out of the box, were way off. Again, fixable but I didn't bother because I already knew the pickup was going back. And I'm not sure it matters, but the DiMarzio's magnets are the strongest I've ever experienced in a pickup. When I went to tighten down the side clamps, the magnets tried really hard to divert my screwdriver. You have to wonder if that has an effect on the strings.

Late edit -- did a gig last night with the Baggs and realized how much I use the little volume wheel if I'm not using my pedal tuner (which mutes). The DiMarzio has no volume control or mute.

[varmonter]

I've owned all of them...The Sunrise is my favorite.
The m80 in passive mode my second favorite.
The m1 I thought sounded too magnetic.like an electric guitar.. The Sunrise is still at the top of the food chain IMHO. It's heavy because it's a big coil.
"Passe" is a poor description.Theve been around along time So I think this is where he's getting this from.But there is a reason theve been around and there is a reason they are almost 600 dollars and that they are generally out of stock..People don't pay top dollar for nothing..
The m80 has a few cons..it's quite wide and won't fit in smaller hole guitars...the switch to turn it from active to passive is small and requires removal from the guitar to engage..which is a real poor design...But I liked it in passive and never changed it anyway when I owned it..Again the sunrise is my go to.
The pro or con of the m80 is that it has a body
Sensing thingy internal (prolly piezo)
Which if your a percussive player gives it a plus over the sunrise.
I don't play percussive style so no big woop for me..

[takis.saro@gmx.]

I had the Sunrise for some Years with a Tube Di, that sounded good, but in a
Standard Di or Mixer it wasn't that good. If you listen to the MOJOTONE Quiet Coil NC-1 Videos that they put out 1 year ago, only David Wilcox Video sounded
good to me, he probably used his Pendulum Audio SPS-1 to record that video with this pickup, it sounded more like my Sunrise with my DIY Tube Di (still needed some Eqing).
My new go to Pickup is the new Headway SAM-1 Mag Pickup. It is active and has a Preamp with good headroom and some fixed EQ inside the Pickup/Preamp. It has less of that electric guitar sound, not so nasaley (if thats a word). Still the Pickup will sound only as good, as the next Mixer or Amp or
Speaker in Line.

[varmonter]

My guitar only louder is a myth..there is no pickup
on the mkt that I have heard that makes the guitar
sound as good as it is when it's mic'd in a studio
..We use pickups for thier convenience and for
feedback resistance..The rest is subjective.
So we choose the sound that we like the best for the style we play..It's all a compromise..There are so many good acoustic guitar pickups out there..

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by stephenT

If this is electric sounding,.. then we disagree on what an acoustic guitar sounds like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lCH5JgWCZY

I disagree with your too, AND, I like the Sunrise a lot, but that sounds VERY electric to me. Magnetics have a signature sound just like USTs do, and I can hear it all over that recording. Personally I don't think that the pros use them because of their acoustic like tone, I think it's more about high volume feedback control with a decent tone that is easy to work with. I own a fairly nice studio with high end microphones (Neumann U89, AKG C414EB, etc) and I've compared my direct Sunrise sounds to the pure acoustic sound of my guitars, and they aren't even close. For that reason I never use that pickup any more and haven't for a while.

And I've own/owned all of the soundhole pickups that are mentioned here, (and I'm listed as endorsing artist for DiMarzio on their website for their Angel), and I surely don't think any of them sound acoustic.

And speaking of DiMarzio, another pickup people don't mention much is the (discontinued) DiMarzio DP139, which IMO is one of the best sounding soundhole pickups ever made, but the mounting system of the pickup sometimes came loose and that's why I stopped using them. Soundwise, to me, they have never been bettered.

I have tried most of the high end UST/SBT pickups, single source and dual source, and I went to magnetic soundhole pickups mainly because I could EQ them to get a tone I could work with, and the feedback rejection is great. I work 5 nights a week playing solo acoustic, and the guys that follow me are piano players that play a full size Steinway, so to compete with those guys I need a big sound, and with magnetics, which I've been using consistently for the last year, I'm getting the job done, I can't remember having a problem with low-end runaway feedback at high volumes. Which I use to have problems with all the time with UST/SBT pickups. I even went to D'Addario nickel bronze strings to bring out the easiest tone to work with (FOR ME). They seem to work very well with magnetic soundhole pickups with very good string balance.

Of all the soundhole pickups, my personal favorite is the Duncan SA6 Mag mic, which I first was impressed with when I heard David Lindley use them in various instruments. But I also like the Schertler, as it lines up well with my Schertler amps, although I find the optional microphone with this pickup is less useable on stage, because it's omni, and feeds back more the than the Duncan at equal volumes .

So to me, the better soundhole pickups just bring a usable musical sound to the table, but IMNSHO not one of them sounds truly acoustic. The ones with a microphone in them bring some acoustic tone in the mix, but inside of the soundhole doesn't exactly put their microphones in the ideal place.