Next steps in journey/lessons

[dalglish7]

I'm continuing to learn more about fingerstyle and alt tunings like DADGAD and do pretty well (relative to my skill) with most tabs i find from my fav players (Gaughan, Brady, Drake) but now I feel like I'm in a slump and just repeating the same songs because it's already in my head/well practiced.

What would you suggest is the next step in learning to be more dynamic and maybe come up with my own stuff? On one hand I've paid for online lessons (e.g. Celtic/DADGAD lesson) but it seems I don't know nearly enough about keys/octaves/chord structure (is this what's considered music theory?) but then I also hear varying ideas on how important music theory is....I'm a bit lost.

TL/DR: Would it be best to just sit and practice scales, or formally learn music theory, or ..... something else (see how little I know)

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Kyle215]

I say this as someone who doesn’t practice scales enough, but doing so will definitely open up your world.

Since you’re into Irish music, maybe try some old time/bluegrass fiddle tunes. A lot of them just work within the major scales, so as long as you’re paying attention to the scale degrees as you learn the tunes, it’s a pretty good practice. And most of the melodies are Irish and/or Scottish as well.

[dalglish7]

Thanks Kyle!

[RLetson]

Disclaimer: I'm not very good at formal training/lessons, despite decades of attendance at workshops with terrific player/teachers. Mostly it's because I'm too lazy to practice.

What has pushed me more than practice: Expanding repetory and playing-with-others. The former is often a result of the latter, with the people with whom I play calling tunes I haven't played (even if I've heard them many times). And sometimes a tune just goes earworm on me, and I have sit down and work it out. And since technique can build on repertory, I've gradually become a better player.

I spent about 25 years as a sofa picker, sometimes working through Oak Publications collections, sometimes figuring out something I'd heard on a record. Then, 25 years ago, I got talked into sitting in with some friends at weekly in-public sessions, and I got over the worst of my stage fright and (more important) had to learn *their* favorites, along with figuring out how to fit into a group. (This was not a jam circle--it was a loose band with a de-facto leader.) And the more I learned, the more I could learn. It stretched my ears and fingers a lot, and it changed my musical life. Jam sessions can accomplish some of this, but the discipline of playing a set with others, in public, is what keeps me going. (It also helps to have really good players to play behind and learn from--and then to have them push you out front a bit. My bandmate/mentors have been very generous.)

[Dru Edwards]

dalglish7, Welcome to the AGF! Great to have you here.

Any chance that you can get together and play with another guitarist once or twice a week? Playing with someone better than you or someone with a different style can be beneficial to one's journey. Hey, if you both get down a few songs you can play out.

[dalglish7]

Thanks RLeston. Playing in jam sessions would be great and I totally can see how that could help. I don't have a whole lot of options at the moment - I'm middle aged, down to one real friend and he thinks my guitar playing is a midlife crisis (heh). I'll have to see if I can find somewhere I can listen in on others playing. Appreciate the response.

[dalglish7]

Thanks Dru and appreciate the welcome. I definitely can see the benefit in playing next to those who are better. I tell my kids that I was a decent tennis player as a teen but didn't get much better until I had the courage to go get my butt kicked by players much better than me and then realized I could grow more. I'll keep an eye/ear out and see who I can find.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by dalglish7

I'm continuing to learn more about fingerstyle and alt tunings like DADGAD and do pretty well (relative to my skill) with most tabs i find from my fav players (Gaughan, Brady, Drake) but now I feel like I'm in a slump and just repeating the same songs because it's already in my head/well practiced.

What would you suggest is the next step in learning to be more dynamic and maybe come up with my own stuff? On one hand I've paid for online lessons (e.g. Celtic/DADGAD lesson) but it seems I don't know nearly enough about keys/octaves/chord structure (is this what's considered music theory?) but then I also hear varying ideas on how important music theory is....I'm a bit lost.

TL/DR: Would it be best to just sit and practice scales, or formally learn music theory, or ..... something else (see how little I know)

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

As far as any form of traditional music / jazz/pop etc the most important thing is to develop your ear by playing along with recordings, if you like celtic style stuff there are books with audio with just the melody line which are not specific to any instrument, so no tab. Play the audio through an app which can loop/slow down sections. Learning tunes entirely by ear is not easy so it's best to have some notation to check you are getting the tune right. You don't need to know how to read the rythmn cause you know how it's supposed to sound by listening , you just need to work out any notes your not sure of. Go over the notation in pencil and convert the note symbols into numerical scale intervals and learn how to play those intervals on the guitar .
.Some beginner flatpicking books can be usefull as they have tab to the basic tune, but as allways learn as much as you can by ear. ' Irish music for flatpicking guitar made easy' by PJ Berthoud could be a good place to start, it has the basic tunes with chord backing suggestions.
www.thesession.org is a good resource for tunes, some have downloadable mp3 tracks.
So once you've learned to play a few tunes melody line only with two or three fingers the next step is to create an arrangement by adding chords and bass notes and that's where the theory comes in, a teacher would be best but Patrick Steinbach's 'Irish Guitar Workshop, how to play and arrange Celtic tunes' is a good place to start.
Practising scales in my view is just a waste of time, but that doesn't mean you don't have to know how to play them you do but learn how to construct them from the intervals not patterns and diagrams, then relate the intervals you have written above the notes to the tunes to the scale intervals on the fretboard. Doing that will give you the grounding needed to be able to make practical use of music theory.

[TBman]

Welcome to the forum!

I would just find more tunes in DADGAD to learn and also look into CGDGAD, CGCGAD as well.

Jim Tozier has a book Celtic Guitar Solos that uses 3 tunings and the book is organized by the tuning. I've had it for over 15 years and still play tunes from it often.

[boombox]

Originally Posted by TBman

Welcome to the forum!

I would just find more tunes in DADGAD to learn and also look into CGDGAD, CGCGAD as well.

Jim Tozier has a book Celtic Guitar Solos that uses 3 tunings and the book is organized by the tuning. I've had it for over 15 years and still play tunes from it often.

I second this suggestion - some of the arrangements are more accessible (ie easier!) than others, but the C tunings represent a nice, but only subtle, change from DADGAD.

If you want to try something different, why not check out some of the modern fingerstyle players - completely different techniques which will stretch you. I'd check out Jon Gomm, Don Ross, Thomas Leeb, Michael Hedges and Andy McKee for starters. In a different style, there's always Tommy Emmanuel too if you prefer more traditional Atkins-style finger picking and Laurence Juber or Pete Huttlinger. Another genre to discover might be acoustic blues - our own Toby Walker offers lots of varied courses.

[donlyn]

Next steps in journey/lessons

Welcome dalglish7,

You can learn a lot on your own using some of the advice already given, but I think a teacher or a mentor/friend is what you need to jump start things.

Someone who can analyze where you are, where you want to go, and also organize a concise plan for how to get you there.

In the meantime, if there is a book or course you an take on-line about music theory, learning at least the basics will help. You may already know some of it, but it's what you don't know and what you didn't know existed are the things you need to learn. Again, at least the basics.

I am pretty much entirely self-taught (not necessarily recommended) and learned from listening and playing along with records. (Especially early Rolling Stones!) When I got to college, I took a Music Theory class, much of which I still use to this day. But there is still much I don't know, especially in the science behind it.

Good luck and good hunting,
Don
.

[TBman]

Also, in the Celtic vein, is Stephen Wake. He plays primarily in Orkney tuning, CGDGCD, and his arrangements are really nice. Many are beyond my pay grade, but I try anyway. I have one or two covers of his arrangements on my Soundcloud page.

You can get all of his notation with tab, along with the mp3s for his tunes on his bandcamp page for a small donation. Stephen is from Orkney, Scotland originally which I thought was interesting too. He is a straightforward player, without percussion.