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  #46  
Old 03-22-2014, 12:19 PM
royd royd is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Michaels View Post
Just listened to your music with your daughter on vocals. I have played out my whole life, some 30 years and I have to say you two are in the top ten. Awesome tonality on guitar and vocals, great depth of feel, very emotional style, and perfect!! Thanks so much
I hope that was referring to me

thanks Doug. FWIW, when recording I always include some of the pickups in addition to external mics so there is some Sunrise in there. Alexis went in a different direction for a number of years and I played backup for a local singer but Alexis and I are performing and writing again. It feels very good.

here's a video from the old days... about '98 I think


And a more recent video of me sitting in with Jill Knight



both guitars have a Sunrise and an earlier generation McIntyre SBT.
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  #47  
Old 03-22-2014, 12:30 PM
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stephenT stephenT is offline
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Originally Posted by Side Man View Post
We have a winner!!!

Only took 10 comments in a reborn 9 yr. old thread to get a K&K plug!
as a Sunrise user who's tried K&K systems twice and removed them both times,... pshaw.

Last edited by stephenT; 03-23-2014 at 06:46 PM.
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  #48  
Old 05-16-2019, 04:15 PM
nweekes nweekes is offline
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Default Resurrect this thread a second time?

I have several acoustic guitars with Fishman Matrix pickups. After 25 years of playing, I am wanting to try the Sunrise but I am hesitating because I don't want to scratch the sound hole. Yet at the same time, I am really tired of the UST. I'm a huge fan of Leo Kottke and if he is still sounding phenomenal and using the Sunrise after 40 years, he sure must know something! Any opinions of Sunrise all these years later?

Kind Regards,
Nathan
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  #49  
Old 05-16-2019, 05:32 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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I have never played through a Sunrise pickup... but I can say that EVERY PLAYER I've known who had a Sunrise has kept it in that guitar... they don't get "parted out" by anyone I've known who's used them...

Kind of like your comment about Kottke - says something.

I'm of the opinion that NO pickup is going to sound "just like my guitar only louder"... the BEST that one can do is to find a sound that "works" for them, and then make that the best you can...

In that regard, the Sunrise pickups' longevity bears witness to a very good sounding pickup...
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  #50  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:22 PM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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a 14 year old thread says alot about the longevity
of these pickups. I think they'great. i too am sick
of kk in all but the quietest of venues.

Last edited by varmonter; 05-16-2019 at 09:28 PM.
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  #51  
Old 05-17-2019, 03:04 AM
63telemaster 63telemaster is offline
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I'm a recent convert to Sunrise after using Baggs M1A, Baggs M80 and DiMarzio Black Angel pickups in my acoustics. I much prefer the Sunrise, it just has a great clarity and wide frequency response especially with the SB-1 Preamp. That said, the Black Angel is still a great pickup and I still use one in my main gig.

If you're concerned about scratching your soundhole, the Black Angel has rubber pads to prevent this. I've not noticed any scratches caused by my Sunrise but you could always stick painters tape to the mounting surface of a Sunrise which I imagine would prevent any scratching.
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  #52  
Old 05-17-2019, 03:30 AM
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I’m tempted by a Sunrise but here conflicting views, but I guess that’s the subjective aspect of sound. At the moment I have the Fishman Rare Earth Blend and whilst it’s good it still sounds ‘hollow’ and I realise that's a rather ambiguous description. The issue for me is that I have two Maton guitars and nothing has come close to their AP5 Pro system for live work. I have just purchased a Grace Design ALIX which actually does improve the sound of the Fishman but I’m still not entirely convinced.

I see Richard Thomas is a long time user of the Sunrise pickup, but he also uses a condenser mic making it a dual system.

For me, the ultimate solution is a Maton AP5 pro in any guitar but that just won’t happen.

But I am tempted by the Sunrise - definitely.
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  #53  
Old 05-17-2019, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Mojo21 View Post
But I am tempted by the Sunrise - definitely.
Why not consider this? https://www.elderly.com/collections/...undhole-pickup
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  #54  
Old 05-17-2019, 01:27 PM
nweekes nweekes is offline
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Default Sunrise adventure

jseth, varmonter, 63telemaster, Mojo21 and Side Man,

Thank you all for your comments. All of you had great advice and some of you hit the nail right on the head for me, and I am grateful. It was said that Sunrise must be doing something right if such great performers are still using a Sunrise after all these years. It really does say a lot. I seem to keep asking the question but I will never know until I try it for myself. It's now time! I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again,
Nathan
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  #55  
Old 05-17-2019, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nweekes View Post
I have several acoustic guitars with Fishman Matrix pickups. After 25 years of playing, I am wanting to try the Sunrise but I am hesitating because I don't want to scratch the sound hole. Yet at the same time, I am really tired of the UST. I'm a huge fan of Leo Kottke and if he is still sounding phenomenal and using the Sunrise after 40 years, he sure must know something! Any opinions of Sunrise all these years later?

Kind Regards,
Nathan
Hi nw

Personally, I think adding an internal mic & quality preamp will change the overall sound more than switching out the pickup.

I used to listen to people like Phil Keaggy who sounded great live with his Sunrise and thought it was the Sunrise Pickup which gave him his signature amplified tone. Then when I called James Olson (I own one) I realized, Phil also had an internal mic, and an amazing outboard preamp.

I discovered a principle…almost any pickup mag, soundboard transducer, or under saddle can be IMPROVED SO MUCH by just adding a mic and external preamp.

When Phil switched out the entire Sunrise for a Baggs Dual source with LB-6 and internal mic his tone got even better. He even semi-retired the Pendulum rack mount preamp. And Phil was just the first of many who have gone this route.

I've run under saddle (and embedded piezo LB-6 saddle pickup) and K&K Pure mini systems, but all had internal microphones. If I disable my mic, I can cripple my sound instantly. The best parts of the sound instantly disappear.

My gigging partner has a 1999 Taylor 714ce (Rosewood/Cedar) with the old version of a dual source pickup factory installed, and it's tons better than the ES systems in modern Taylors (it's also a Barn Door). It has an undersaddle/internal mic…Fishman preamp built in.


My 2₵ worth.


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  #56  
Old 05-17-2019, 02:41 PM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi nw

Personally, I think adding an internal mic & quality preamp will change the overall sound more than switching out the pickup.

I used to listen to people like Phil Keaggy who sounded great live with his Sunrise and thought it was the Sunrise Pickup which gave him his signature amplified tone. Then when I called James Olson (I own one) I realized, Phil also had an internal mic, and an amazing outboard preamp.

I discovered a principle…almost any pickup mag, soundboard transducer, or under saddle can be IMPROVED SO MUCH by just adding a mic and external preamp.

When Phil switched out the entire Sunrise for a Baggs Dual source with LB-6 and internal mic his tone got even better. He even semi-retired the Pendulum rack mount preamp. And Phil was just the first of many who have gone this route.

I've run under saddle (and embedded piezo LB-6 saddle pickup) and K&K Pure mini systems, but all had internal microphones. If I disable my mic, I can cripple my sound instantly. The best parts of the sound instantly disappear.

My gigging partner has a 1999 Taylor 714ce (Rosewood/Cedar) with the old version of a dual source pickup factory installed, and it's tons better than the ES systems in modern Taylors (it's also a Barn Door). It has an undersaddle/internal mic…Fishman preamp built in.


My 2₵ worth.


I agree w/LJ that a good dual source set-up w/internal mic is generally the key part of every live set-up I've heard that I was impressed by. Like him, I heard Phil Keaggy's use of the Baggs Micro Duet II w/LB6 and I swiped that for myself by using the Baggs Dual Source (the modern equivalent) with the LB6. On its own, the passive LB6 is a good pickup but it sounds much more clean and clear in an active setup and exceptional with a mic added. I've never loved the passive K&K Mini setups I've heard but in the Trinity configuration with good EQ, it sounds awesome.

A good rule of thumb I've been told is that all dual source systems should consist of a string sensor and something microphonic and the better the string sensor, the better your tone. The Sunrise sounds great on its own but really shines w/an internal or external mic to add the air and woodiness it can't detect. The same goes for the Baggs LB6 or Fishman Matrix (I don't think the Baggs Element or Fishman AG sound all that good on their own, so I excluded them ) The exception to this philosophy is the K&K which exists in a word where it's technically a SBT but has the positive characteristics of a UST. I wouldn't, normally, add a mic to something like a Dazzo, Trance, or PUTW but K&K has a tone that gains a lot of clarity and detail with a good internal mic. I think one of the most complete tones I've heard is Mike Dawes' use of a K&K Trinity w/a Dimarzio Black Angel.

However, if we want to talk mastery of the Sunrise, look no further than David Wilcox who uses his Sunrise in conjunction with RMC Hex pickups, a McIntyre Feather, a Joe Mills internal mic, and an external mic for a very detailed and natural sound. Of course, that's a ton of sources that are very specifically notched to their best frequency response but still...the Sunrise is a big part of it.
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  #57  
Old 05-17-2019, 06:38 PM
BluesKing777 BluesKing777 is offline
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Yes, the ability to add just a few percent of mic to my Sunrise would be very nice! What mic do you suggest?

I have some Matons with the dual source Maton AP5-Pro and the undersaddle part is great on its own...but add that mic and..that is it!

But to get that sound on non Matons, I have recently bought the Seymour Duncan Mag Mic and really like it......because of adding some mic... (I could have saved money on all the pickups I have bought if I had bought this first!).

So back to the Sunrise - I move mine around guitars and dangle the lead out front to the Sunrise pre. If I could get a little condenser that fit on the mag like the Mag Mic, phew..e.e.e. For sake of ease to use, it would be better if the Sunrise had a model....hint hint.


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  #58  
Old 05-17-2019, 08:26 PM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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Originally Posted by BluesKing777 View Post
Yes, the ability to add just a few percent of mic to my Sunrise would be very nice! What mic do you suggest?

I have some Matons with the dual source Maton AP5-Pro and the undersaddle part is great on its own...but add that mic and..that is it!

But to get that sound on non Matons, I have recently bought the Seymour Duncan Mag Mic and really like it......because of adding some mic... (I could have saved money on all the pickups I have bought if I had bought this first!).

So back to the Sunrise - I move mine around guitars and dangle the lead out front to the Sunrise pre. If I could get a little condenser that fit on the mag like the Mag Mic, phew..e.e.e. For sake of ease to use, it would be better if the Sunrise had a model....hint hint.


BluesKing777.
The Baggs Lyric and K&K Meridian are solid options to add to any other source. I think the best internal mics I’ve heard are Mini-Flex which are a little obscure and expensive but undeniably great.
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  #59  
Old 05-17-2019, 09:01 PM
Willie_D Willie_D is offline
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I've seen Ben Harper, Bonnie Raitt, Leo Kottke, Lyle Lovett, Emmylou, and a ton of others with Sunrise systems. They all have better gigs and less limited budgets for that kind of stuff than I do. They must be great pickups.

Magnetic acoustic pickups aren't my thing, but they' are somebody's thing.

I read an interview years ago where Kottke said he chooses the pickup he's going to use according to the room - if the room is really "live," he'll use the Sunrise to mellow it out a bit, but if the room is dead he'll go with a piezo to liven it up. This was in the 90s.
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  #60  
Old 05-18-2019, 03:37 PM
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I have had a Sunrise in my 914 for years. It also has a K&K pm. If I want clean clear acoustic tone without the bit of compression, I use the Sunrise with the SB2 preamp. It is a no muss and no fuss tone. Some players complain about mag pickups being too “electric” in tone but I don’t find that at all. Any amplification and pickup system will add that tone to your guitar. My 914 sounds like an acoustic guitar, plain and simple.

I have not had any damage to the top and the weight, which is greater than most soundhole pickups, has not been a problem. I do use the K&K most times simply because it is on the tip of the output jack and I can use my ToneDexter.
I like K&K pickups and they work fine for most of my gigs. There is something quite different with the Sunrise, so I would say you really have to experience it for yourself. I have had many mag pickups and nothing really compares to the Sunrise.
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