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  #16  
Old 02-11-2005, 09:15 PM
Aloha Jim Aloha Jim is offline
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Question miking vs pickup

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Originally Posted by 12stringhack
Uh, we all have one?

Jim, seriously, this is certainly a highly subjective topic. I've had the Sunrise in the Gibson for a decade and wouldn't trade it for anything. Others hate it (as evidenced in this thread).

For the record, those in my band think the Sunrise has a certain "clean and natural" sound that goes far beyond what we'd expect a magnetic pickup to have. Of course, you must use the Buffer Box to reveal all that the pickup is capable of doing. It's not the same without it.

And I must close my comment by stating that this is all tilting at windmills. I will politely argue that ANY pickup turns your acoustic instrument into an "electric" guitar. True acoustic sound? Mic the thing. Or play in small venues.
Thanks a lot for the info. My guitar teacher suggested I use two high quality directional condenser mics, one toward the rear of the guitar and one up near the neck. He's done that for years, from weddings to concert halls. Runs the two mics into a stereo blender then this and that, not sure. Both of us play solo guitar. He plays flamenco and classical. I play Hawaiian slack key and folk/contemp. All small gigs.

I guess I'll just have to take the money plunge. This stuffs not cheap.
My dreadnought Guild and tiny Concert size Taylor are near opposites in sound depth. I'm trying to get a transferable pickup system that will work equally well with both. Tough. If I tailor each pickup system to each guitar that's twice the bucks. Tough again.

All tips appreciated.

thanks again,
aloha,
jim
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  #17  
Old 03-15-2014, 09:11 AM
Gibbo Gibbo is offline
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When you use a Sunrise (or any other magnetic pickup) you have to commit yourself to the fact that it's got a sound of its own and it's never going to sound as acoustic as a mic. I like the sound of the Sunrise. I do some pretty severe cutting of the mids and the sound is beautifully clear in a kind of glassy way. It hasn't got the complexity of a mic sound, but then neither has a clean Strat sound, but that doesn't make the latter deficient, just different. If you want to get the best out of the Sunrise, don't try to fight it and make it something it's not; work with it and you'll get to appreciate it's distinctive sonic character. It also has the virtue of being free of feedback problems, and you can very effectively balance your individual string volumes with the pole pieces. For these various reasons, Richard Thompson and a whole bunch of other great acoustic guitarists who can afford to use anything they want, use a Sunrise. If you are a purist looking for an authentic acoustic tone, look elsewhere.
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  #18  
Old 03-15-2014, 09:12 AM
ecguitar44 ecguitar44 is offline
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9 years.

Is that a record for resurrecting a thread?
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  #19  
Old 03-15-2014, 09:33 AM
janmulder janmulder is offline
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Default ... and then there came the Blackstack ...

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Originally Posted by ecguitar44 View Post
9 years.

Is that a record for resurrecting a thread?
... since then I believe we have son of Sunrise as some appear to be suggesting. Is the Fishman Blackstack really similar to a Sunrise?

It's also big 'n' passive and certainly looks similar ... has an old school sound too ... and the Fishman video kinda hints towards it without saying anything directly.

Or is it all hype/nonsense?

It's very difficult finding many different Blackstack sound examples ... which makes it difficult to make a judgement unless you actually have heard them both. Anyone know?
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  #20  
Old 03-15-2014, 10:51 AM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Wow, was AGF around in 2005?

To the current question, there are samples of the Blackstack and Sunrise on my pickup page. The Blackstack is pretty clearly Fishman's attempt to provide a product for people who would like a Sunrise. The devil's in the details, but it's a large passive magnetic pickup that sounds quite close to the Sunrise, while being slightly smaller. Whether it's identical sounding seems less important to me than whether you like it or not. Try them out and see.

The other pickup out there that's virtually identical to the Sunrise, except for the way it mounts, is the Duncan Woody XL. Samples of that are also on my pickup page. Compare and see how similar they sound to you.
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  #21  
Old 03-15-2014, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
The other pickup out there that's virtually identical to the Sunrise, except for the way it mounts, is the Duncan Woody XL. Samples of that are also on my pickup page. Compare and see how similar they sound to you.
That's good to know, thanks. Long time Sunrise user, I've tried a bunch of other pickups but I aways come back to the Sunrise/buffer box system, but the idea of a useable sound hole pickup for under $100 is very attractive for a spare.

Particularly with the "side on" mounting of the Woody. I've got a Martin OO-15m I wouldn't mind using on stage but I don't want any installed pickups in that guitar.

Cool!
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  #22  
Old 03-15-2014, 02:37 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Jim, my experience with and around Sunrise pickups and preamps is that if you're going to play onstage in larger venues - and this is the most important part of the equation -

with somebody out in the house running the sound,

you can get a great and quite possibly superior sound out of Sunrise electronics.

Using it with the expensive preamp is also important, but all the folks I've seen who sound their best with Sunrise gear seem to be folks like Lyle Lovett who aren't having to dial in their sound themselves, but have a pro who travels with them to do it.

Like a lot of players who have a strong interest in the technical aspects of live performance, for a long time I made the assumption that the pricier the gear, the better it must be. But after chasing my tail with a lot of this stuff, I came to the realization that so long as I'm running the sound from onstage, there are going to be nuances I'm going to miss, simply because I can't hear the sound that the audience hears from where I'm standing.

There's a very strong case to be made that it's in those subtle nuances that high dollar pickups and preamps prove their worth.

I'm not saying anyone who isn't a big name act should fool around with this gear - I mean, hey, do what you want. But I will say that the point of diminishing returns gets reached fairly quickly if the person using this sort of gear onstage also has to dial it in at the same time.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller
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  #23  
Old 03-15-2014, 03:16 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talkgtr View Post
Particularly with the "side on" mounting of the Woody. I've got a Martin OO-15m I wouldn't mind using on stage but I don't want any installed pickups in that guitar.
The mount's a bit funky, I find it hard to use with most guitars, probably the reason it's not more popular. But if it works, it's a good sounding mag, and sure makes a cheap temporary pickup or spare!
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  #24  
Old 03-15-2014, 04:26 PM
DCannon DCannon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acousticman View Post
Go see Lyle Lovett sometimes if he is around. He uses notheing but Sunrise Soundhole pickups in his Collings and sounds wonderful!!!!!
That's because he has an endless bank of state-of-the-art electronics behind him as well as top sound engineers...as Wade alluded to. I've yet to use or hear any sound hole pickup or UST that sounds natural or even decent without some serious external EQ. But then, some actually like that electronic sound.

DC
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  #25  
Old 03-15-2014, 04:45 PM
Tony Done Tony Done is offline
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Could anyone please tell me what the resistance of a Sunrise pickup is, as measured across the output?

Thanks.
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  #26  
Old 03-15-2014, 04:50 PM
MJRB MJRB is offline
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I use K&K Mini Western, passive (no battery in the guitar) no "barn door", excellent sound, masses of output. Easy to install yourself too.
MJRB
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  #27  
Old 03-15-2014, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCannon View Post
That's because he has an endless bank of state-of-the-art electronics behind him as well as top sound engineers...as Wade alluded to. I've yet to use or hear any sound hole pickup or UST that sounds natural or even decent without some serious external EQ. But then, some actually like that electronic sound.

DC
I believe LL uses the Sunrise tube interface.

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  #28  
Old 03-15-2014, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Whether it's identical sounding seems less important to me than whether you like it or not. Try them out and see.
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2014, 08:06 PM
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I'm a long time Sunrise fan and have one in my #1 guitar. I have a Dimarzio Angel with their internal preamp in #2 that I like a lot and think sounds very similar to the Sunrise.
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  #30  
Old 03-16-2014, 03:40 AM
janmulder janmulder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
To the current question, there are samples of the Blackstack and Sunrise on my pickup page. The Blackstack is pretty clearly Fishman's attempt to provide a product for people who would like a Sunrise.

... the Duncan Woody XL. Samples of that are also on my pickup page. Compare and see how similar they sound to you.
Just tried your samples and yes, they do sound kinda similar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Whether it's identical sounding seems less important to me than whether you like it or not. Try them out and see.
Absolutely agree. I was interested in whether they sounded similar ... which, from your samples they do. Unfortunately, trying out is difficult ... no access to Sunrise. I'll try finding the blackstack.

Do you know if the Blackstack has the same requirement for a buffer preamp? I have/use the tonebone prez as my main pre ... maybe that would do.
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