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  #91  
Old 11-13-2013, 09:28 AM
billgennaro billgennaro is offline
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i can relate, eric. i have a Brondel 00 and a Traugott R. The Traugott sounds bigger and the 00 is a tad louder. seems like the exact situation with your two fine instruments. i always likened this to the 00 being louder in the trebles, which seem to hit the ear different than mids and lows. just a guess by someone who really doesn't know. one thing is for sure, a great 00 (which i had been searching for for years) is a thing to behold.

btw, i've played a few Somogyi Mod-D's. while i consider them "too much" guitar for me, i can see why others would covet one. you feel like you are sitting inside the guitar when you play one. really quite an unbelievable experience. Jason must put a slightly different twist to his design, as Ervin's Mod-D's were the loudest guitars i've ever played.
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  #92  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:26 PM
ericcsong ericcsong is offline
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Many of you have been asking me the comparison between the 00 and the Mod-D. I tried to capture the differences in the soundcloud and also my mini assessment of the 00.

Lets talk about the Mod-D.

I've had my Mod-D for over 2 years now. Sometimes its not fair comparing the two. I remember I had a discussion with Kevin Ryan when commissioning my Cathedral wondering if I should deepen the body like the signature Bensusan he had at that time. He mentioned that as a guitar ages, there is a maturity in the bass. Many could perceive that there is a deepening in the bass as a guitar ages, this can all be part of the opening up process. My Mod-D certainly has matured in the short time that I've had it, and it defintiely is bassy! When I commissioned it, I asked Jason to focus on a very deep haunting tone and a thunderous bass found in a Somogyi I played.

Some remember this picture when I commissioned my Mod-D. Jason held the wood up to my ear to play around with tap tones and I remember this set was the one that rang the most:



I strung them both up with the same strings (D'addario EXP phos bronze bluegrass). I'm not a bluegrass player, but I had two sets around the house so I wanted to compare them with the same strings. The bluegrass seem to be in between Mediums and Lights.

So the Mod-D is bassy, boomy, big, versatile, the list goes on and on. But what about the differences? Upon first pick at both when they were side by side, the 00 was louder! How can this be? A small body being louder? While the 00 sounder louder, the Mod-D sounded bigger. This shows that its not always the bigger guitar that is the loudest guitar.

I'm not saying the Mod-D isn't loud, but lets just say the little guitar moves less air so its projecting that air out fast! It definitely has better projection than the bigger guitar. Being a little confused, I asked Jason what was going on here.

Of course he doesn't give me an easy answer and says there are so many variables! One thing you read here on AGF every now and then is about action vs. volume. Some say that if you reduce the action, you can get less volume. I think I'm experiencing that first hand here. Earlier this year, I was able to meet with Kenny Marshall. He used to work at Zion guitars as their neck specialist. I had his set up my guitar to my liking which is extremely low action and when drop tuned, I'll get a tiny buzz, which I like (well, the guitar will buzz, not me!) Some say that Tony is a set up specialist and after having him set up a few of my guitars, I believe it!

One slight side effect for low action would be a little loss in volume. But its not necessarily about the action itself, but everything that is involved in a setup. Even down to the break angle at the bridge. Jason said that he tends to have his action low, but not as low as I like it. One reason is that within the first year or so of a guitars life, it will adjust and acclimate to the climate where the guitar will live. Things will shift and things will move. And not everyone likes super low action!

So in comparison, the two guitars are very different, yet sound so much a like. When listening to the recording, you can tell its the same maker. You can hear that Kostal signature tone. I asked Jason about his thoughts, he probably said it best by saying that the 00 wasn't built to compete with the Mod-D. Nor was it built to compete with his OM. Its just a different guitar! He aimed to build a small guitar that would sound surprisingly bigger than it seems. He even deepened the body a hair to achieve his results.

What I learned again from this comparison is that the bigger guitar will not necessarily be the louder guitar! The 00 will give you the focused balanced tone with great mids, thick trebles, and great projection. The Mod-D will give you that haunting bass and big big cavernous sound, but at the ame time keep the balance (weird, I know!). My question now will be if I put darker strings on the 00 and brighter stings on the Mod-D, how would they compare? Its madness I tell you! But the process of playing such fine guitars is certainly fun and an enjoyable journey!
Quote:
Originally Posted by billgennaro View Post
i can relate, eric. i have a Brondel 00 and a Traugott R. The Traugott sounds bigger and the 00 is a tad louder. seems like the exact situation with your two fine instruments. i always likened this to the 00 being louder in the trebles, which seem to hit the ear different than mids and lows. just a guess by someone who really doesn't know. one thing is for sure, a great 00 (which i had been searching for for years) is a thing to behold.
Bill, isn't that the truth! I hear Laurent builds one heck of a guitar. Would love to try one someday!
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  #93  
Old 11-14-2013, 11:17 AM
steveh steveh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billgennaro View Post
btw, i've played a few Somogyi Mod-D's. while i consider them "too much" guitar for me, i can see why others would covet one. you feel like you are sitting inside the guitar when you play one. really quite an unbelievable experience. Jason must put a slightly different twist to his design, as Ervin's Mod-D's were the loudest guitars i've ever played.
Interesting. A few people I know who have played a Somogyi MD say this - the one I played was incredibly responsive and sounded huge, almost as if it were about to explode! Very "reverby". Really quite an experience. Very lightly built, at least on the basis of the one I've played. I'd love to play it again.

Jason's MD is a little more balanced if that makes sense; sounds more like a "normal" guitar! I would be proud to have either.

I wonder if the perception that the smaller guitars are louder is due to the frequencies they emit. It's well recognised that increasing the high frequency content of hi-fi audio can make the music sound "louder", whereas bass travels further and is felt more (vs heard). Some smaller guitars really pump out a lot of high end. None of the Brondels I've played have been particularly shy when it comes to high frequencies either. Great guitars but very, very different style to the Somogyi camp (and Traugott for that matter, but you know that, lucky guy!).

Cheers,
Steve
  #94  
Old 11-14-2013, 02:56 PM
cpabolting cpabolting is offline
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I was far more impressed with Jason's MD (Billy Boy's and Bella's) than I was of the Somogyi MD that was there at HEALDSBURG

Jason is a really nice guy and a star on the rise... looking forward to mine getting started soon! Have the most awesome set of Brazilian picked out!
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  #95  
Old 11-14-2013, 04:54 PM
JamesO JamesO is offline
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Jason posted this clip of Tony McManus playing the OO and OM at Woodstick.

Uh, yes please. If I had a Mod-D, I'd get the OO in a heartbeat. Two very unique voices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAKhr6ZhZAE
  #96  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:02 PM
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CoolerKing CoolerKing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveh View Post
Interesting. A few people I know who have played a Somogyi MD say this - the one I played was incredibly responsive and sounded huge, almost as if it were about to explode! Very "reverby". Really quite an experience. Very lightly built, at least on the basis of the one I've played. I'd love to play it again.

Jason's MD is a little more balanced if that makes sense; sounds more like a "normal" guitar! I would be proud to have either.

I wonder if the perception that the smaller guitars are louder is due to the frequencies they emit. It's well recognised that increasing the high frequency content of hi-fi audio can make the music sound "louder", whereas bass travels further and is felt more (vs heard). Some smaller guitars really pump out a lot of high end. None of the Brondels I've played have been particularly shy when it comes to high frequencies either. Great guitars but very, very different style to the Somogyi camp (and Traugott for that matter, but you know that, lucky guy!).

Cheers,
Steve
Take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt. If Somogyi's guitars are so lightly build is there any concern for long term stability?
  #97  
Old 11-14-2013, 06:45 PM
billgennaro billgennaro is offline
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Take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt. If Somogyi's guitars are so lightly build is there any concern for long term stability?
in Somogyi's book he writes that his instruments are built to last many lifetimes if treated with the proper care. Somogyi (and many other luthiers) build their guitars for an audience that they assume will be far more discerning than the typical buyer. factory built guitars have to build a sturdier instrument because they reach a much wider clientele, many of whom won't necessarily take great care of their instruments (teenagers, camping trips, parties, road trips, etc). they over build them in hopes of avoiding being inundated by warranty work. Somogyi, and others, can afford to build much lighter because they assume that their buyers will be much more careful with their instruments. this is how i understood what was written in his book.

hope this helps!
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  #98  
Old 11-15-2013, 01:30 AM
steveh steveh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesO View Post
Jason posted this clip of Tony McManus playing the OO and OM at Woodstick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAKhr6ZhZAE
Thanks +++ for putting this up.

Superb playing and guitars but I could barely watch it due to the constant drone of people talking in the background while Tony was playing; seemed to be getting on his nerves as well?

Are the punters really that rude and inconsiderate there? Anyone on the Board there to confirm or refute?

Cheers,
Steve
  #99  
Old 11-18-2013, 08:49 AM
ericcsong ericcsong is offline
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a few pictures of the 00:






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  #100  
Old 11-18-2013, 08:51 AM
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Nice photos. Top looks good in that light.
  #101  
Old 11-18-2013, 09:01 AM
ericcsong ericcsong is offline
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Originally Posted by matthewpartrick View Post
Nice photos. Top looks good in that light.
thanks matt, not the best! it was a cloudy day and the sun came out for just a sec. I didn't have the 00 that long on loan so I thought I'd run out real quick to snap a few photos.
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  #102  
Old 11-18-2013, 10:02 AM
JamesO JamesO is offline
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Eric, does the body have much taper? I can't really tell.
  #103  
Old 11-18-2013, 02:47 PM
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Congrats!! So are you considering using German/Brazilian again?

After the second world war, a lot of Germans hid in Brazil,,
I did not know they got into the lumber business,,

oh well,

Rick
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  #104  
Old 11-19-2013, 06:08 AM
Fngrstyl Fngrstyl is offline
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Amazing guitar!
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  #105  
Old 11-25-2013, 10:08 AM
ericcsong ericcsong is offline
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Quote:
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Jason posted this clip of Tony McManus playing the OO and OM at Woodstick.

Uh, yes please. If I had a Mod-D, I'd get the OO in a heartbeat. Two very unique voices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAKhr6ZhZAE
Another video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epdIRNczWtI&sns=fb
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