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Old 05-30-2019, 02:02 PM
campersand campersand is offline
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Default K&K sound problems

Hi all,

I recently got a parlour-ish guitar (modeled after the Gibson L-0 body shape) from a local luthier named Dan Biasca, and got a k&k mini installed. It's a beautiful guitar and I love its unamplified tone, though it is a little on the bassy/boxy side. Unfortunately, the pickup seems to amplify all the bad things and none of the good things about the guitar's natural tone.

I have an LR Baggs Venue preamp and have tweaked a bunch with that, and with my Loudbox Mini, and just can't seem to get a decent tone. Cutting the bass enough to tame the low strings makes the high strings sound tinny, and there's a low mid honk that I just can't seem to get rid of.

So my question is, does anyone have any recommendations for alternative amplification options that work with small, somewhat bassy/boxy-sounding guitars?
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:19 PM
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James May James May is offline
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I got a chuckle out of your handle.
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:49 PM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campersand View Post
Hi all,

I recently got a parlour-ish guitar (modeled after the Gibson L-0 body shape) from a local luthier named Dan Biasca, and got a k&k mini installed. It's a beautiful guitar and I love its unamplified tone, though it is a little on the bassy/boxy side. Unfortunately, the pickup seems to amplify all the bad things and none of the good things about the guitar's natural tone.

I have an LR Baggs Venue preamp and have tweaked a bunch with that, and with my Loudbox Mini, and just can't seem to get a decent tone. Cutting the bass enough to tame the low strings makes the high strings sound tinny, and there's a low mid honk that I just can't seem to get rid of.

So my question is, does anyone have any recommendations for alternative amplification options that work with small, somewhat bassy/boxy-sounding guitars?
I've had this on a couple K&K equipped guitars; I have a theory on it that I won't get into here, but I've been able to alleviate that woofy midrange by simply removing the center transducer from the bridge plate...easy enough to do with a razor blade or box cutter blade...just slide it under the edge and rock it back & forth.

I had to do this on my 12-string and my Taylor 412k
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Old 05-30-2019, 03:16 PM
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Methos1979 Methos1979 is offline
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I've had this issue with small box guitars and mid-range honk. I found that the culprit is often a sympathetic vibration on the open G string. Try this out: In standard tuning, fret the low E at the G (third fret) and watch the open G string. Does it start to vibrate? If it does, now try this: Plug in and amplify. Now do the same thing - fret the G note on the low E. Does the open G string sound off and honk as well? Now try this: Dampen the open G string and then play the G note on the low E? Sound better?

If this is the case then the 'fix' I found for this is to use an EQ pedal of some sort and either dial out that frequency or even notch it out. I have had great luck with notching out that sympathetic harmonic but note that if you start to capo around you will likely get different notes on different strings. But for me that G is just the worst for some reason.
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Old 05-30-2019, 03:29 PM
RogerPease RogerPease is offline
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Short answer:
Get yourself an Ultra Tonic Pickup Conversion kit with extra disk.
Yes, it costs some $$, but you're in for penny already, might as well go the whole pound.
It's still passive (no battery) and doesn't add a lot more junk in your guitar so you don't
give up many of the pros of the K&K.
Check out the James May Engineering site in James' post #2 above.

Explanation:
I had the same problem with my Martin CEO7 after I installed a K&K Mini.
Mud, mud, mud everywhere you looked.
Only with extreme low-mid EQ cuts could I get a sound that I still didn't like a whole lot.
The notch control was my best friend.

I tried disconnecting the center transducer but that did not fix it.
(Honestly, I don't remember if that even improved the sound but if it did it wasn't enough.)

I got a James May Engineering Ultra Tonic Conversion kit. It adds a 4th transducer on the
treble side and a larger bass transducer way over in corner on the bass side of the bridge
plate. The extra bass transducer runs out of phase with the other 4 small transducers.

On the inside of the endpin jack there is a small circuit board with dip switches and you
must pick the switch to turn on that gives the best sound out.
I used the "by ear" method to do this. Sounds complicated but it's not.

I remain very happy with the end result. It fixed the pickup sound problems.
I can now plug into a Fire Eye preamp and go straight into the FOH system.
Ok, some mild EQ can still help a bit but it's not required.

Edit: As you can see James shows up on the forum here sometimes. But you can send him
an email if you have questions. See that and a bunch of other info on his site.

Disclaimer: Just a happy customer.

Last edited by RogerPease; 05-30-2019 at 03:34 PM. Reason: added thought
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Old 05-30-2019, 04:50 PM
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SalFromChatham SalFromChatham is offline
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I couldn’t get my guitars( k&k equipped) to sound right with two expensive pieces of equipment I tried... a Baggs Venue and a Fishman Aura. I ended up with a Red Eye.

For you? I’d recommend a plain K&k Pure Xlr... dial down the mids majorly...
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:09 PM
guitarwebguy guitarwebguy is offline
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I’ve had several guitars 12 string and 6 string with a variety of K&K systems (both pre-amped) and successfully use a Grace Design Felix (AliX would work also) to give me the optimal sound. Are you pre-amped or passive before heading into the Venue then Loudbox?
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:23 AM
uriah1 uriah1 is offline
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Fire eye (redeye) just seems to work well with those.
My pz-pre nice too, but, got to make right
adjust for feedback.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:48 AM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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I would suggest testing your Biasca guitar and K&K pickup with other gear first. No need to buy anything until you determine whether the K&K pickup simply does not work with your guitar - it does not work with all guitars. If it does not work well using a variety of gear, then you should change pickups, or use a different guitar for amplified situations.
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:16 AM
campersand campersand is offline
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Thanks for all the responses! Looking into the Ultra Tonic, that might be the way to go. If I do get one I'll let you all know how it turns out.
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:46 AM
sublro sublro is offline
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+1 on the ultratonic - i have one in an Eastman om and it’s what a k&k wants to be when it grows up (and I’ve been a BIG K&K fan...)
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:04 PM
cheer tunes cheer tunes is offline
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I was going to ask you if the 3 elements are glued on or taped? Also, do you think they are in the correct spots on the bridge plate? I have not had this kind of issue with K&K mini, I have enjoyed the tone from them. That said, I'm liking the HFN passive more right now...
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:12 PM
jay7347 jay7347 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themissal View Post
I couldn’t get my guitars( k&k equipped) to sound right with two expensive pieces of equipment I tried... a Baggs Venue and a Fishman Aura. I ended up with a Red Eye.

For you? I’d recommend a plain K&k Pure Xlr... dial down the mids majorly...
I've scratched my head about the marriage of my K&K'S and my Venue DI for years until I read something on this forum about them not playing nicely with each other. I then went out and bought a Red Eye and was amazed at first plug-in how clear and articulate the sound was for both my acoustic and my electric. So plus one for the above comment!
-jay
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:15 PM
campersand campersand is offline
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Default Update!

Update: I ended up getting a Tone Dexter pedal instead of the ultratonic kit after hearing a few impressive demos online, and I absolutely love it! It's hard to overstate how amazing this pedal is. I've owned a lot of guitar and bass pedals over the years and I've never been as blown away by one as I am by the Tonedexter. My guitar now sounds almost better plugged in than it does acoustically, which is crazy.

After experiencing the Tonedexter I honestly can't see why anyone would use a "normal" preamp pedal unless they're already more or less happy with their amplified tone. The Tonedexter was $100 more than my Baggs Venue but the difference is night and day.

Anyway, I've only used it at home and on one gig so far, so I suppose there's still a chance for it to disappoint me in some way, but for now I'm 100% happy with the Tonedexter and would strongly encourage others in the same boat to check it out.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:31 PM
gfirob gfirob is offline
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Glad to hear you are enjoying your Tonedexter. The other great thing about them is that you can us multiple guitars and just change the wavemap slot. I think there is nothing like it on the market.
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