The 3rd voicing...

[TBman]

A while ago I was putting some of Andrew York's compositions into Guitar Pro so I would have tab along with notation. I discovered that there were some measures that didn't work out timing wise. Usually there is either just one voicing or two (1 for treble, and sometimes the other is the bass). So I sort of forced things to work, but it didn't sound exactly right on play back. Then I realized I needed to use 3 voicings for some measures to work. That was it.

"Why" and "By Candle Light" are two arrangements that I had to use 3 voicings. I thought I would share this info in case some are like me and were scratching their heads about it

[rick-slo]

Curious as to what you were thinking so checked out "By Candle Light"
online:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRL9PgJSvtg

https://www.tabcrawler.com/1966609// (not my tab, just saw it on the internet)


Seems pretty straight forward piece to tab out two voiced and with time signature and note values indicated.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Curious as to what you were thinking so checked out "By Candle Light"
online:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRL9PgJSvtg

https://www.tabcrawler.com/1966609//


Seems pretty straight forward piece to tab out.

Try it, let me know how it turned out.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by TBman

Try it, let me know how it turned out.

Not interested but it is a simple piece.

If note durations seem to throw you here you can use musical terms in your score. In this piece you might indicate
"Let ring" (lasciare suonare) indicating essentially to allow the sound to continue, do not damp. I use the term fairly
often in tabs.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Not interested but it is a simple piece.

If note durations seem to throw you here you can use musical terms in your score. In this piece you might indicate
"Let ring" (lasciare suonare) indicating essentially to allow the sound to continue, do not damp. I use the term fairly
often in tabs.

The 4th measure in Candlelight is where I had to start using 3 voicings. Maybe my interpretation of what was going on was off, but it works flawlessly. Just food for thought though when hitting one of those mental walls.

[rick-slo]

I tabbed out first few measures of "By Candle Light" using just one voice using a tied note from measure four to five. Of course you could use two voices
(treble and bass) to tab it out but then are rest indications to deal with and overall possibly less easy to sight read for a simple tune like this one.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

I tabbed out first few measures of "By Candle Light" using just one voice using a tied note from measure four to five. Of course you could use two voices
(treble and bass) to tab it out but then are rest indications to deal with and overall possibly less easy to sight read for a simple tune like this one.

That doesn't match with the notation I have from Andrew York. (I purchased the Kinderlight collection from his website). Here's a partial export from the GuitarPro file I did.

[rick-slo]

More than one way to tab it and come up with the same notes played. Just tried to show you three voices not needed. He chose two voices (which is probably the standard way of doing things (even though not necessary other than greater indication of note durations (not strictly correct in his two voice version either)) and a bunch of rests and chose to indicate key of G# minor. I chose to use D# minor which seems more correct to my ears (neither in any case relies on accidentals in the sections shown). One does get into more voices when scouring out multiple instruments.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Man, you guys really like to over-complicate things
Not only that, but it looks like important stuff is being left out in the process.

One thing about Andrew York's music if you purchase it. It's all laid out in front of you, meticulously, as he intended. No guessing, or missing anything. With all the right guitar fingerings, dynamics and all the compositional markings. And he often does use multiple voices. This is a Largo, with a haunting feel. The pulse is really the half-note.
The voice you found Barry in the 4th measure is the melody coming in. I circled it.
Have a look how simply, and completely, he lays it all out! It's all there!!!
TAB is not a good way to go with his music. You risk leaving too much out. (IMO).

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Gitfiddlemann

Man, you guys really like to over-complicate things
Not only that, but it looks like important stuff is being left out in the process.

Not really. Most tab done these days (as here in this thread) has the music score in standard notation right along with it. On guitar pieces at least in terms of learning to play it as the composer intended having the tab is often more informative than just standard notation due to indications of string and fret to be used. There are other advantages of tab but fingering is the main one.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Gitfiddlemann

Man, you guys really like to over-complicate things
Not only that, but it looks like important stuff is being left out in the process.

One thing about Andrew York's music if you purchase it. It's all laid out in front of you, meticulously, as he intended. No guessing, or missing anything. With all the right guitar fingerings, dynamics and all the compositional markings. And he often does use multiple voices. This is a Largo, with a haunting feel. The pulse is really the half-note.
The voice you found Barry in the 4th measure is the melody coming in. I circled it.
Have a look how simply, and completely, he lays it all out! It's all there!!!
TAB is not a good way to go with his music. You risk leaving too much out. (IMO).

My tab is from his music that I purchased. I still have the original for reference.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Not really. Most tab done these days (as here in this thread) has the music score in standard notation right along with it. On guitar pieces at least in terms of learning to play it as the composer intended having the tab is often more informative than just standard notation due to indications of string and fret to be used. There are other advantages of tab but fingering is the main one.

I guess we see things differently. I see having both as much more of a nuisance or a needless distraction, and the notation to be much more complete in regards to the content it provides. Take the first measure. If you look at the TAB, you see 4 and 4. But those are just frets. The correct fingers to use for those notes are 3 and 2 to play the music with the proper hand position. The TAB shows a string of 1/8th notes, which is really not correct. And none of the rests, some of which are 1/4 and 1/8 duration. There are ornamental grace notes in this piece which add a lot, which the TAB will likely omit.
Even if you make the argument that both TAB and notation are shown, it can't be helpful to the player if the info shown ends up being conflicting, or at best incomplete, when looking at both as you're trying to play it.
I think having just the notation, or just the TAB, would be less confusing to me. And less busy. The TAB would be likely incomplete, but one can always get a listen to the piece, and piece it together that way.
Whatever works. In the end, that's all that matters. I think we can probably agree on that!

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by TBman

My tab is from his music that I purchased. I still have the original for reference.

I know. That's what I meant. You already have the notation, i.e. Andrew York's notation and fingerings. It doesn't get any better than that imo. I guess I didn't understand the need to make a TAB out of it that might leave things out.
Obviously, no problem if that's how you prefer to do things!

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Gitfiddlemann

I know. That's what I meant. You already have the notation, i.e. Andrew York's notation and fingerings. It doesn't get any better than that imo. I guess I didn't understand the need to make a TAB out of it that might leave things out.
Obviously, no problem if that's how you prefer to do things!

Yes, I have to use notation with tab as I do not have all the notes memorized on the fret board (to match their corresponding notation representation). I can find them, but it isn't second nature which to me is the basis for sight reading. I'm okay up to the 5th fret, but after that I have to count on my fingers (of sorts).

I'm retired now and I should really take the time to do so, thanks for the kick in the butt. Maybe this is a good wake up call for me.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Gitfiddlemann

I guess we see things differently. I see having both as much more of a nuisance or a needless distraction, and the notation to be much more complete in regards to the content it provides. Take the first measure. If you look at the TAB, you see 4 and 4. But those are just frets. The correct fingers to use for those notes are 3 and 2 to play the music with the proper hand position. The TAB shows a string of 1/8th notes, which is really not correct. And none of the rests, some of which are 1/4 and 1/8 duration. There are ornamental grace notes in this piece which add a lot, which the TAB will likely omit.
Even if you make the argument that both TAB and notation are shown, it can't be helpful to the player if the info shown ends up being conflicting, or at best incomplete, when looking at both as you're trying to play it.
I think having just the notation, or just the TAB, would be less confusing to me. And less busy. The TAB would be likely incomplete, but one can always get a listen to the piece, and piece it together that way.
Whatever works. In the end, that's all that matters. I think we can probably agree on that!

In my tab the note values are correct if you are limited to a single voice as I did. If you followed the thread from the beginning you would know I was responding to Barry saying
he needed to use three voices to get the timing right and I showed even one voice would do. Both standard notation and tab together can contribute to learning a new piece correctly
and faster.

Probably for my first few decades learning guitar pieces (classical mostly) I just used guitar scores in standard notation. Not a problem though I do think
a good tab along with the score sometimes useful.

Finger notation can be used in tab as well as standard (usually the a-b-i type way) though usually pretty self evident what to do without it.
In the tab and standard notation for things I compose arrange the timing incidations can in some pieces be the most time consuming part of it.
I am usually working up some new pieces and noting down progress as i go along is a better bet than just my memory.
One example is https://www.dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar...NightBlues.pdf

Again regarding timing indications in guitar music (especially compared to something like a flute) the note duration values given many notes in tab
or standard notation almost has to be incorrect (visual clutter otherwise) - say a C chord arpeggio for example.