Carter Picking is "upside down?"

[phydaux]

So I'm working on my bass runs, making a stab at getting halfway decent at Carter Picking.

Maybelle Carter played a style of chord melody where the melody was played on the bottom strings with a thumb pick, and the accompanying chords were "scratched" with the nail of her index finger across the top strings.

Other people, say Tommy Emmanuel, do a style of chord melody very similar to Chet Atkins & Merle Travis, where the fingers play the melody on the top three strings and the thumb plays the bass line on the bottom strings.

Now what little I know of classical guitar playing, classical guitar is similar to that Tommy, Chet, & Merle do.

Now given that Mother Maybelle was a self taught guitarist, what does that say about Carter Picking?

[Andyrondack]

I do that with a few songs but's easier to do on some songs than others whereas playing melody on the treble strings works with everything, it's just that when it does work it works well because the bass strings are louder so the melody really stands out from the chords.
I never really developed it beyond a few songs because for a lot of stuff I play fingering the chords on treble strings while playing melody on bass seemed too difficult , but maybe I just never tried hard enough.
Nobody taught me to do it that way but then nobody taught me to arrange with melody on the treble strings either.

[Mandobart]

Let's see - Maybelle Carter started playing (I wouldn't call her style chord melody) when? The other people (Tommy Emmanuel, Chet Atkins, Merle Travis) started when? Who's upside down?......

[phydaux]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

Let's see - Maybelle Carter started playing (I wouldn't call her style chord melody) when? The other people (Tommy Emmanuel, Chet Atkins, Merle Travis) started when? Who's upside down?......

Mother Maybelle and Merle Travis were contemporaries, but chord melody & Spanish guitar predate them both by quite a bit.

Robert Johnson was doing chord melody slide guitar before both of them.

[Robin, Wales]

A good observation! Two very different approaches, Carter and Travis, but both using thumb pick and a single finger pick. Albeit that Maybell wore her fingerpick the wrong way round and used it just to "brush".

Carter played an archtop, where melody played across the lower strings is distinct. Travis played a flat top, and palm muted the bass strings to give his rhythmic alt thumb clarity.

I find that I can use a flat pick to emulate "Carter style", and the majority of the songs a play I adapt my guitar accompaniment to that style. I've not really thought about this before but I have drifted into playing an acoustic archtop, because its timbre just seems "right" for my song accompaniment style?

I also Travis pick some songs (Panch and Lefty, Clay Pigeons, Boots of Spanish Leather etc) , although I use two finger picks rather than one (so I don't consider it strictly Travis picking, in the same way that using a flat pick is not strictly Carter picking). This works fine on the archtop but perhaps "better" on the flattop. I don't need to palm mute quite as heavily on the archtop.

And then you have Leicester Flat, again using a thumb pick and single finger pick but in this case to give drive to a bluegrass band.

What they all have in common is that the guitar in their hands is primarily a tool for song accompaniment, not for playing instrumentals. And I think we should view these styles from that lens.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by phydaux

So I'm working on my bass runs, making a stab at getting halfway decent at Carter Picking.

Maybelle Carter played a style of chord melody where the melody was played on the bottom strings with a thumb pick, and the accompanying chords were "scratched" with the nail of her index finger across the top strings.

Other people, say Tommy Emmanuel, do a style of chord melody very similar to Chet Atkins & Merle Travis, where the fingers play the melody on the top three strings and the thumb plays the bass line on the bottom strings.

Now what little I know of classical guitar playing, classical guitar is similar to that Tommy, Chet, & Merle do.

Now given that Mother Maybelle was a self taught guitarist, what does that say about Carter Picking?

Hi, I see Mother Maybelle's style as , essentially a Banjo frailing style.

I doubt that I'm historically accurate, but I see her style as the for-runner of the bluegrass/country rhythm Boom-chick style that I love -and play so much,and what most people who approach me for zoom lessons want to pursue.

I also do most of my melody on the bass and middle rather than on the trebles.

My finger style (literally "finger") as I only use my thumb and index finger possibly because I'm left handed. I also tend to find the melodies with my thumb.

What I think is most important is for us all to develop our own style -take what you wish from Carter, Merle, Chet etc., but don't copy - develop your own style ... as did they.

[Italuke]

Melodies can be in any voice (ie on any string) with the harmonic elements elsewhere. Most styles of music vary depending on the piece. I've played plenty of classical pieces with passages having the melody in the bass. Your observation about Carter is correct, but I'd hesitate to have such hard and fast rules about this style is this way, that style is that way.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by Italuke

Melodies can be in any voice (ie on any string) with the harmonic elements elsewhere. Most styles of music vary depending on the piece. I've played plenty of classical pieces with passages having the melody in the bass. Your observation about Carter is correct, but I'd hesitate to have such hard and fast rules about this style is this way, that style is that way.

Sure but how many of those classical pieces were written to have the melody in the bass?
If you want to play tunes originally written on melody instruments or stuff like piano rags then melody in the bass is just not doable on guitar.

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by phydaux

Now given that Mother Maybelle was a self taught guitarist, what does that say about Carter Picking?

Carter picking works very well. So does the other. Carter picking actually works better than the other when people are singing, and the guitars part is the rhythm section and bass section plus adding in the melody.

[Italuke]

Originally Posted by Andyrondack

Sure but how many of those classical pieces were written to have the melody in the bass?
If you want to play tunes originally written on melody instruments or stuff like piano rags then melody in the bass is just not doable on guitar.

All of them. You mean I was playing "arrangements?" No, I think you missed my point. That is that "melodies" can be COMPOSED to appear in ANY voice of a musical texture -- top, middle, or bottom. (Historical tidbit: research the topic of "tenor" going back to medieval music. There, the "melody" was in the middle.)

True though that the primary melodic idea in MOST music is on the top. So yeah, Carter is upside down. Everbuddy happy...

[tbeltrans]

Relax, the guitar is a bit weird in the music world. It is intended to be played however you want to play it. Forget the "shoulds" and just go for the music. The guitar players we remember and admire are those who found their own approach and voice on the instrument.

Tony

[frankmcr]

If you want to play tunes originally written on melody instruments or stuff like piano rags then melody in the bass is just not doable on guitar.

That's a bizarre assertion to come across in a thread about Carter picking.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

That's a bizarre assertion to come across in a thread about Carter picking.

Why have you chosen to quote my post out of context? That seems to me like a bizarre thing to do.

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by Andyrondack

Why have you chosen to quote my post out of context? That seems to me like a bizarre thing to do.

Your post (number 8 in this discussion) in its entirety:

"Sure but how many of those classical pieces were written to have the melody in the bass?
If you want to play tunes originally written on melody instruments or stuff like piano rags then melody in the bass is just not doable on guitar."

If you did not intend to be perceived as saying "If you want to play tunes originally written on melody instruments or stuff like piano rags then melody in the bass is just not doable on guitar", you might consider rephrasing what you wrote.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

Your post (number 8 in this discussion) in its entirety:

"Sure but how many of those classical pieces were written to have the melody in the bass?
If you want to play tunes originally written on melody instruments or stuff like piano rags then melody in the bass is just not doable on guitar."

If you did not intend to be perceived as saying "If you want to play tunes originally written on melody instruments or stuff like piano rags then melody in the bass is just not doable on guitar", you might consider rephrasing what you wrote.

You might consider viewing my post as a comment on Italuke's post, but I guess you didn't understand that either?
People like you make the internet a nasty place.