I, IV & V Help understanding

[12barBill]

Originally Posted by merlin666

So if there are seven notes in the major and minor scales, which two are omitted to get a pentatonic scale?

The half steps are omitted.

For instance a major scale is:
whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step...

C major scale -- C D E F G A B (C)
C major pentatonic-- C D E G A (C)

[Mr. Jelly]

Note that a pentatonic scale is five notes and they repeat in different octives. The C major pentatonic scale is the same notes as an A minor pentatonic scale. The phrasing makes the difference. The pentatonic scale mimics the human voice when talking.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

The pentatonic scale mimics the human voice when talking.

Really? I don't think I've ever heard anyone talking in anything like a pentatonic scale.

I think the popularity of pentatonics (worldwide) is because they're easy to sing.

Leaving out the half-steps (from major and minor pent) also makes them highly adaptable (modally ambiguous), because expressive half-steps can be inserted when and where we like.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by KevWind

It's my understanding in a minor pentatonic it's the 2nd and the 6th interval
And in a major pentatonic the 4th and the 7th
But again the beauty is as long as you know the key of the song and pentatonic pattern position sequence, that will automatically leave out the two notes

I think learning standalone pentatonic scale patterns can really make improvising more difficult than it needs to be. At some point you have to learn where the notes are of the chord being played over, that's not really optional. So once you know that you just need to add the two other notes that would turn the arpegio of that chord into the pentatonic scale built on the root note of that chord.
So why bother with learning pentatonic scale shapes when if you know the chord tones you allready know the pentatonic scale of that chord it's only two more notes.
Of course if you have learned chords by shapes then it's quite likely that you won't be able to identify the individual chord tones.
That's the drawback to taking shortcuts in the learning process.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Andyrondack

I think learning standalone pentatonic scale patterns can really make improvising more difficult than it needs to be. At some point you have to learn where the notes are of the chord being played over, that's not really optional. So once you know that you just need to add the two other notes that would turn the arpegio of that chord into the pentatonic scale built on the root note of that chord.
So why bother with learning pentatonic scale shapes when if you know the chord tones you allready know the pentatonic scale of that chord it's only two more notes.
Of course if you have learned chords by shapes then it's quite likely that you won't be able to identify the individual chord tones.
That's the drawback to taking shortcuts in the learning process.

I am certainly no teacher or expert and only know basic Theory and what has and has not worked for me, so with that in mind :::::
I agree that learning the notes that make up the chord is important.
However I think there is misconception that learning Pent scale patterns is automatically a "crutch or shortcut" as it is often labeled .
It is simply another tool and or another step in the process..
Also To clarify I was not implying learning only "standalone" Pent patterns which is why I said "the key of the song" meaning learning where the root note for any given key is.

I do agree that learning what and where notes of chords are and where all the notes are on the fret board are, for that matter,,, is important.... But I disagree that it has (or should) be,,, one way over the other. I think both are important.

And I would disagree that learning pent scales makes improvising "more difficult than it needs to be.". More limited yes (if you learn just the patterns and take it no further) But more difficult No .. In fact it think the exact opposite is true, at least for me it made improvising much much easier .................................................. ......
I would however completely agree that mastering lead involves much more than just pent patterns

[Mr. Jelly]

I started learning guitar before there were any learning tools besides sight reading. Guitar teachers started you out picking "Mary Had a Little Lamb" or something. I learned to play some chords that sounded good to me and they ended up being a 12 bar blues. I picked around for single notes that sound right to my ear and they ended up being the minor pentatonic scale. Not in any box shape mine is more of a flowing up and down the strings and the finger board. Without that experience I may not have continued to play guitar. So there is that

[Lonnie]

Very helpful. Thank you so much!

[merlin666]

Originally Posted by 12barBill

The half steps are omitted.

For instance a major scale is:
whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step...

C major scale -- C D E F G A B (C)
C major pentatonic-- C D E G A (C)

Thanks that is very helpful.