Martin SC 13 and Fishman MX pickup

[Audie]

Important observation and information for those auditioning this new guitar.
I began having some difficulty dialing in a sweet sound in my setup. Before blaming myself, the guitar, or the instrument,; I dug into the background of the Fishman Pickup system that is factory installed. I was just working to hard at dialing in the right amount of mids and bass. When I did, the trebles suffered. What I learned is the Fishman MX has a default ( non-adjustable) type of mid filter or something or another. That explained why the trebles and mids were so thin using my Mesa Rosette, which also has fine tune mid adjustments. Once I compensated for the pickups default setting, everything came to life.

I am concerned folks will not be familiar with this Fishman System and become disappointed and/or frustrated with the instrument, perhaps unnecessarily. I have heard of systems having such a mid filter or whatever, but this one is really good at it. If you do not know any better, you could easily get frustrated. Can I say again this guitar sounds amazing. Martin really knocked it out the park.

So one question, does anyone have experience with this Fishman pup and what is your impression on it.

[jonfields45]

It is a great candidate for a ToneDexter or other IR solution.

[SpruceTop]

I wonder why a Matrix UST wasn't used instead of the Sonicore UST for the new Martin SC-13E? Cost savings of a few bucks? I'd rather pay a few bucks more for the new Martin and get the top of the line Matrix UST as opposed to the Sonicore UST. Maybe I'm confusing the terms Sonitone and Sonicore? I do believe that there was a Sonicore UST at one time and I'm assuming, perhaps wrongly, that it's a part of the new MX system?

[JackB1]

I was told the Fishman MX was just a Sonitone with a soundhole tuner added.

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I wonder why a Matrix UST wasn't used instead of the Sonicore UST for the new Martin SC-13E? Cost savings of a few bucks? I'd rather pay a few bucks more for the new Martin and get the top of the line Matrix UST as opposed to the Sonicore UST.

[Audie]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I wonder why a Matrix UST wasn't used instead of the Sonicore UST for the new Martin SC-13E? Cost savings of a few bucks? I'd rather pay a few bucks more for the new Martin and get the top of the line Matrix UST as opposed to the Sonicore UST.

Do you think it would be an easy swap out if I wanted to change and perhaps keep the tuner?

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by JackB1

I was told the Fishman MX was just a Sonitone with a soundhole tuner added.

Maybe the Fishman MX uses a Matrix UST as its pickup?

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Audie

Do you think it would be an easy swap out if I wanted to change and perhaps keep the tuner?

I don't know as I'm not familiar with the MX system. I was under the impression that the original Fishman Sonitone system used something called a Sonicore UST pickup and I got the impression of it as being a lesser UST than the Matrix.

[JackB1]

I was told by Fishman that its just the Sonitone with a tuner

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Maybe the Fishman MX uses a Matrix UST as its pickup?

[SpruceTop]

Finally, I found the information and wasn't imagining things!

The Fishman Sonitone system used/uses the Sonicore pickup. So, if the new Fishman MX is the Sonitone system with an added tuner, then it likely also uses the Sonicore UST pickup. This, then, brings me back to my original question as to why Martin didn't put a Matrix-UST-based system in the new Martin SC-13E? Personally, I'd forgo the MX system with its tuner for a Fishman Matrix Infinity system in this guitar. Being that the new Martin SC-13E is supposedly designed from the get-go to be a performer's guitar, the Fishman MX system, to me, is like launching this new guitar with one foul-ball strike against it right off the bat. Then again, maybe the new MX system sounds good enough for professional usage?

From the Fishman website regarding the Sonitone: Designed to meet the needs of value-price acoustic guitars and ukuleles, the Fishman Sonitone Onboard Preamp System features a soundhole mounted preamp with rotary controls for Volume and Tone. The Fishman Sonicore pickup comes standard providing a quick, solder-free installation. https://www.fishman.com/fishman-equi...mp-system-oem/

[jonfields45]

The Sonitone, like the Baggs Element, is difficult to damage and an easy factory install. For Martin's Mexican factory it seems to be their goto solution to hit a price point.

For high stage volumes it is a good solution and is likely what the target user for this instrument wants.

An IR will clean it right up. The canned Zoom IRs have been pretty effective with coaxial USTs and the A1 Four is pretty cheap. The NUX Optima Air can generate custom IRs (with the addition of a mic preamp) or load IRs from my generator.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

The Sonitone, like the Baggs Element, is difficult to damage and an easy factory install. For Martin's Mexican factory it seems to be their goto solution to hit a price point.

For high stage volumes it is a good solution and is likely what the target user for this instrument wants.

An IR will clean it right up. The canned Zoom IRs have been pretty effective with coaxial USTs and the A1 Four is pretty cheap. The NUX Optima Air can generate custom IRs (with the addition of a mic preamp) or load IRs from my generator.

I wonder if the Sonicore UST pickup has a higher gain before feedback than a Matrix UST? I also wonder if Martin will ever release an American-made version of the Martin SC-13E or something similar? Maybe, it would have a Matrix-/Aura-based system onboard?

[Audie]

Thank you for the responses. I am not familiar with the tonedexter. I was able to clean up the sound qith the rosette. What I had initially was a pickup system and a DI both with the mids scooped. Once I dialed that out, whamo! Worked great.

I am going to study up on the Matrix, I am not comfortably familiar with Fishman products.

Other than price point, I don't know why they did not go with the matrix. I may be inclined in the near future to swap it out for the matrix.

As far as price point goes, this may also explain why they went with a laminate. Although this three ply laminate is not only good looking, but sounds great. Whatever they did, they have me hooked. So hooked that I can grow to love the thinner neck. It is ok, just not my ideal thickness. A Rep told me they may have tweaks in the future, giving me the idea they know they have something here.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

The Sonitone, like the Baggs Element, is difficult to damage and an easy factory install. For Martin's Mexican factory it seems to be their goto solution to hit a price point.

For high stage volumes it is a good solution and is likely what the target user for this instrument wants.

An IR will clean it right up. The canned Zoom IRs have been pretty effective with coaxial USTs and the A1 Four is pretty cheap. The NUX Optima Air can generate custom IRs (with the addition of a mic preamp) or load IRs from my generator.

Larry Fishman actually mentioned this recently. He believes that the Sonitone, like the Baggs Element, does impact the tone negatively when installed but it's so hard to damage that they put it in lower priced offerings. Still, for such a unique and new design from Martin, I am shocked that they went for this pickup. I mean, the Baggs Element is in the same price range as the Matrix and it is used in a lot of lower priced offerings from Gibson.

[Marty C]

I think the MX-T has a different tone adjustment. More of a mid scoop and a boost to the treble and bass. I actually like this pickup and love the turner. Mutes when pressed and inside the sound hole.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Larry Fishman actually mentioned this recently. He believes that the Sonitone, like the Baggs Element, does impact the tone negatively when installed but it's so hard to damage that they put it in lower priced offerings. Still, for such a unique and new design from Martin, I am shocked that they went for this pickup. I mean, the Baggs Element is in the same price range as the Matrix and it is used in a lot of lower priced offerings from Gibson.

Probably a bean counter thing as in, "Mr. Martin, you can't put a Matrix-based system in the new Martin SC-13E and have it come in under a list price of $1899.00. The extra $39.00 the Matrix-based system would cost would destroy our carefully calculated price-point for this guitar, and inhibit sales!"

Scott, how many times have you said to yourself, regardless of the type of product you're handling in your midst, "If this was my company I'd never design this feature this dumb way!"