Stuck on pickup choice

davehertzberg · #1 11-22-2022, 01:39 PM

Hi all, first time posting here.

Recently acquired a Martin M36, and I'm a bit stuck on what kind of pickup to install. I'm all over the map. My current Martin (HD16R-LSH) has a K&K in it and it's always been ok for me. I'm mostly a bass player actually and my guitar amplification needs are not great, but I want to get whatever is best and will last a long time as I possibly get more into playing guitar. I do like playing fingerstyle but also do strumming. I don't see myself playing in bands where feedback would be much of an issue, although I guess anything is possible down the line. Mostly it will be just me playing myself.

I've considered Anthem, Fishman REB, K&K (with or without the internal preamp), JourneyTek (including the newer mic option), JME UltraTonic, and probably others I'm forgetting.

I'd like to not have to deal with external preamps and I know that the SBT like K and K really need those to sound their best. But I am also under the impression that other kinds of pickups change the sound of the guitar acoustically which I wouldn't want, although I'm wondering whether this is something that would be barely noticeable. I've read this about both UST pickups and also about the Fishman REB.

Also, I've watched a zillion YouTube videos on all these pickups and in some comparisons one pickup sounds amazing, and in another it sounds terrible to me.

Basically I want the most natural sound possible, with the simplest possible setup. One good option seems to be the K and K with the internal preamp - would this change the sound of the guitar acoustically?

Please help me find the pickup of my dreams!

Br1ck · #2 11-22-2022, 01:54 PM

You have described the pickup everyone wants but no one has found. I've found happiness with Dazzo pickups and a SunnAudio pre. I had this setup with my M 36 but don't recall what set of Dazzos. They were probably 70s or 60s.

davehertzberg · #3 11-22-2022, 02:54 PM

Thanks for the recommendation - the Dazzo/preamp combo looks pretty pricey.

I guess I’d like to clarify one main question in hopes of getting a clear answer. Ok what ways and how much does any pickup other than a SBT affect the acoustic tone? Some seem to say it does and that is a big factor, others say not so much. I’m not a purist and don’t really care about having extra “stuff” in the guitar like batteries, etc., but I don’t want the acoustic sound to suffer.

rschultz · #4 11-22-2022, 03:25 PM

Many of us here love/hate the K&K, I for one am on both sides of that fence. But is there something you don't like about it? I added the Ultratonic conversion kit to mine to tame some of the bassiness and add a little more treble, it's somewhat adjustable. I think it significantly helped my K&K sound.

The K&K signal is considered pretty hot passive. But as for preamp, it's very common and simple to have a preamp outboard that will allow you to add gain and simple EQ. And just like pickups, there are about 100 options there ranging from $50-$1000. If you want, we all can chime in on suggestions there too.

My advice, since the K&K is likely glued in, is to stick with it and try to get the most out of it. It really is probably one of the top 5 most natural and well rounded pickups you can use.

davehertzberg · #5 11-22-2022, 03:30 PM

Rschultz, the k and k is in a guitar I will likely be selling at some point. I’m looking for a new pickup in the M36 I just got. Honestly the k and k never bothered me but when compared with others in several videos I’ve seen, I tend to like the Anthem sound more. Just trying to figure out whether it will really harm the acoustic sound - if so then I’d probably go with one of the SBT like k and k.

rschultz · #6 11-22-2022, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehertzberg

Rschultz, the k and k is in a guitar I will likely be selling at some point. I’m looking for a new pickup in the M36 I just got. Honestly the k and k never bothered me but when compared with others in several videos I’ve seen, I tend to like the Anthem sound more. Just trying to figure out whether it will really harm the acoustic sound - if so then I’d probably go with one of the SBT like k and k.

Nothing wrong with anthem, I ran with one of those for years. Solid pick up choice.

The anthem would be more of a jack of all trades master of none. The KNK is better at somethings, and not as good at others.

davehertzberg · #7 11-22-2022, 03:34 PM

Did you find that it changed the acoustic tone at all? I still don’t understand how that would even work but people seem to say it does.

rschultz · #8 11-22-2022, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehertzberg

Did you find that it changed the acoustic tone at all? I still don’t understand how that would even work but people seem to say it does.

The only thing that doesn’t change your acoustic tone would be a well-placed MiC. Everything else is just trying to do the best it can. The KNK is considered one of the better more natural sounding pick ups. The anthem does a nice job with a combination of the under saddle ust and internal Mic. Everything is a trade-off.

Now that I understand your Guitar situation, I think you should try the anthem. It’s pretty good and It’ll get you a lot of mileage. And if after six months, you decide it’s not good enough. Well, it’s completely removable. But the KNK is more of a permanent installation that’s very difficult to remove.

ChrisE · #9 11-22-2022, 05:49 PM

I have one guitar with a K&K and it sounds fine.

I have another with a Baggs Lyric and it sounds fantastic.

Mandobart · #10 11-22-2022, 07:28 PM

I attended a concert last Saturday featuring a well known Seattle singer-songwriter. It was just him on a vocal mic and his Collings OM with a K&K. No preamp, just a standard passive DI going into an old analog mixer. In the sanctuary of a local Episcopal church - high arched wooden rafters, wooden ceiling, bare cinder block walls. Oak pews.

Sounded wonderful. He did some fingerstyle, some flat picking and some hybrid picking. He had a full dynamic range, no irritating extraneous noise, absolutely no quack or tinniness.

jay7347 · #11 11-22-2022, 09:32 PM

Up to three months ago I would have said the K&K. After all, I had put one in two Lowdens and a Noble custom harp guitar. But after putting one in the Bashkin I just bought I have to say I was disappointed. I had it pulled by Michael and an Anthem dual source put in. I could not be happier. Gosh it sounds so much better.

-jay

mondoslug · #12 11-23-2022, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehertzberg

I tend to like the Anthem sound more. Just trying to figure out whether it will really harm the acoustic sound -

It does, it doesn't, it's the placebo effect, it's not the placebo effect...

Myself, not that you asked - I like the Anthem SL more so than the full blown Anthem only because I'm more bothered by the huge piece of Plastic hanging off the top of the guitar than the under saddle issue lots are concerned about...but that is me.

davehertzberg · #13 11-23-2022, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay7347

Up to three months ago I would have said the K&K. After all, I had put one in two Lowdens and a Noble custom harp guitar. But after putting one in the Bashkin I just bought I have to say I was disappointed. I had it pulled by Michael and an Anthem dual source put in. I could not be happier. Gosh it sounds so much better.

-jay

Thanks Jay. Did you notice any change in the acoustic tone? With the anthem?

davehertzberg · #14 11-23-2022, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mondoslug

It does, it doesn't, it's the placebo effect, it's not the placebo effect...

Myself, not that you asked - I like the Anthem SL more so than the full blown Anthem only because I'm more bothered by the huge piece of Plastic hanging off the top of the guitar than the under saddle issue lots are concerned about...but that is me.

Is that just an aesthetic thing for you?

poopsidoo · #15 11-24-2022, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehertzberg

Hi all, first time posting here.

Recently acquired a Martin M36, and I'm a bit stuck on what kind of pickup to install. I'm all over the map. My current Martin (HD16R-LSH) has a K&K in it and it's always been ok for me. I'm mostly a bass player actually and my guitar amplification needs are not great, but I want to get whatever is best and will last a long time as I possibly get more into playing guitar. I do like playing fingerstyle but also do strumming. I don't see myself playing in bands where feedback would be much of an issue, although I guess anything is possible down the line. Mostly it will be just me playing myself.

I've considered Anthem, Fishman REB, K&K (with or without the internal preamp), JourneyTek (including the newer mic option), JME UltraTonic, and probably others I'm forgetting.

I'd like to not have to deal with external preamps and I know that the SBT like K and K really need those to sound their best. But I am also under the impression that other kinds of pickups change the sound of the guitar acoustically which I wouldn't want, although I'm wondering whether this is something that would be barely noticeable. I've read this about both UST pickups and also about the Fishman REB.

Also, I've watched a zillion YouTube videos on all these pickups and in some comparisons one pickup sounds amazing, and in another it sounds terrible to me.

Basically I want the most natural sound possible, with the simplest possible setup. One good option seems to be the K and K with the internal preamp - would this change the sound of the guitar acoustically?

Please help me find the pickup of my dreams!

Ultratonic. You described it perfectly. And it sounds so perfect in my d-28