Choosing a Lowden style instrument

[brianlcox]

I have a difficult (and very pleasant) choice ahead of me and thought this would be a great place to get some informed opinions. I have managed to sell some guitars and now getting ready to make a purchase. I have the chance to buy one of the following guitars on the local used market:

1. Lowden O25 (basically new)
2. Lowden O35 (walnut and Sitka, 2001 model)
3. Avalon A380 (basically new)
4. Mcilroy A30C (basically new)

All of these guitars are in roughly the same price range, so cost isn't really a factor. Resale value is definitely a consideration, but I guess they are all about the same anyway.

I know the the best thing to do (and what I will have to probably do) is to try all the guitars and choose which speaks to me, but they are all a couple hours away and all in different directions. Thus I thought I would ask for some advice here. They are all Lowden inspired instruments, so I thought they might be comparable, and fun for you to disect their various pros and cons.

I play with both bare skin fingers and a pick in roughly equal amounts and play (until now) only in standard tuning. In terms of music style, Influences include John Mayer, James Taylor, and Eric Clapton's acoustic stuff. I already have a great OM (a Boucher OMH in Bubinga).

What do you think?

[frankhond]

I own/owned a couple lowdens. They are great instruments with their own voice.

The O shape is very large, like a J200. This turned out to be a problem for me, and I ended up getting a S model with cutaway which is my main guitar now. This may or may not be an issue for you. If you can handle it, the large body brings huge headroom and dynamic range, along with lots of volume. Something to be aware of is that Lowdens have very much their own thing going in terms of response and dynamics. If you are used to a American style guitar, you may initially find that the instrument doesn’t do what you expect. Give it some time and experiment. The walnut O sounds like a J200 on steroids, very clear and versatile. The rosewood is darker and richer and invites more fingerstyle stuff.

The Avalons look like Lowdens but don’t have the Lowden thing at all, they are braced differently and sound more American. Excellent guitars. Could be nice if you like the dynamics of a Lowden but prefer a more traditional acoustic.

Haven’t tried McIlroy but 30 is a sitka top, no? That will be a different tone again. I think these are more ”Lowden” than Avalon.

I would try the Lowdens first, they are most distinctive IMO. Happy hunting.

[M19]

Get ready to love DADGAD!

I'm surprised that they are all nearly the same price, as the list price on the 35 would be close to $1k more than the 25, and the 25 close to $1k more than the Mac. The Mac will have the same "bling" features as the 35, a step up from the 25. The O's are the jumbo size and the Mac is the next step down (MJ?-same as the Lowden F). Not sure on the Avalon size or price.

I have a McIlroy A30c that is my number one guitar (see my avatar!), and I would highly recommend it. It replaced a Lowden O32 and F32c. It's market value now is likely around $2600.

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by brianlcox

I have a difficult (and very pleasant) choice ahead of me and thought this would be a great place to get some informed opinions. I have managed to sell some guitars and now getting ready to make a purchase. I have the chance to buy one of the following guitars on the local used market:

1. Lowden O25 (basically new)
2. Lowden O35 (walnut and Sitka, 2001 model)
3. Avalon A380 (basically new)
4. Mcilroy A30C (basically new)

All of these guitars are in roughly the same price range, so cost isn't really a factor. Resale value is definitely a consideration, but I guess they are all about the same anyway.

I know the the best thing to do (and what I will have to probably do) is to try all the guitars and choose which speaks to me, but they are all a couple hours away and all in different directions. Thus I thought I would ask for some advice here. They are all Lowden inspired instruments, so I thought they might be comparable, and fun for you to disect their various pros and cons.

I play with both bare skin fingers and a pick in roughly equal amounts and play (until now) only in standard tuning. In terms of music style, Influences include John Mayer, James Taylor, and Eric Clapton's acoustic stuff. I already have a great OM (a Boucher OMH in Bubinga).

What do you think?

Oh...I think...you already know what needs to be done here.

Ya gots to do your own homework, not peek off someone else's test.

There is no substitute for your ears, your hands, and your heart...

Saddle up son and ride!!!

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[brianlcox]

The price points are all within roughly 500 Dollars of each other. The O25 and the Mcilroy have Anthems installed in them, while the O35 and the Avalon don't, which sort of evens the score in terms of price point.

What about the differences in body size (Both Lowdens are O size, while the Mcilroy and Avalon are more F size). Furthermore, the Lowdens are both cedar tops, and the other two are spruce. Would it be fair to say that (while all four can reasonably cover all bases) the Lowdens will both prefer fingerpicking and the Mcilroy and Avalon would be perhaps better for strumming?

I had a 1986 Lowden L25 (now named O25) for a while and thought it was great for fingerstyle stuff, but I had a really hard time controlling it when strumming. That being said, I have more experience with a pick now...

[brianlcox]

Originally Posted by frankhond

The walnut O sounds like a J200 on steroids, very clear and versatile.

When I think of a J200, I think of big rythym style strumming - is this the case with the O35 walnut / cedar ? Somehow I didn't expect the cedar top to be good for that.

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by frankhond

I own/owned a couple lowdens. They are great instruments with their own voice..........

If you are used to a American style guitar, you may initially find that the instrument doesn’t do what you expect. Give it some time and experiment.........

First, welcome to the Forum.

I think the point that Frankhond makes is something to consider (which you might have already come to a conclusion)
I have had several lowdens over the last 40 or so years, and there is no argument about quality and workmanship of Lowden Guitars. But as hard as I tried I could not bond with the sound.

Out of curiosity what guitars have you sold and was it to fund the Lowden.

[brianlcox]

Originally Posted by Mbroady

First, welcome to the Forum.

Out of curiosity what guitars have you sold and was it to fund the Lowden.

Thanks for the welcome - I've been lurking here for about a year now, mostly in the for sale area, but also using the search function to read about specific things. This place is a gold mine of information!!!

I have been playing around buying and selling guitars for about two years now, basically buying used guitars locally and selling them after a few months. The goal has been to try to figure out what I really like in a guitar and what suits me. I've also developed a lot as a guitar player in the past two years, so guitars that I've sold I would be very happy to have again now! Here's a quick list of some of the guitars that have passed through my house in the past year or two:

Martin D18
Martin OOO15m
Martin OOO15
Martin GPPA4 Rosewood
Taylor 615ce
Lowden L25 (today O25)
Patrick James Eggle Linville Gareth Pearson
Larrivee L09
Guild F20 (1996)
Eastman 805
Furch F20cm
Washburn D62SW
Washburn D61SW
Larrivee L05e (still have)
Boucher OMH Bubinga (still have)

[RodB]

I have 2 McIlroys, both A size - one Cedar topped the other Sitka. They are quite different in sound, although they are clearly closely related. I finger-pick both and definitely would not consider the spruce top means it’s only any good for strumming.

Having a Cedar tppoed guitar might be a nice contract to your existing guitar. As others have said, these guitars might be very different to what you are used to, and if you haven’t at least played some examples I would highly recommend making a journey or two....

[Edit: see you have sold a Lowden in the last 2 years, so at least you do know the overall sound, premably one of the guitars you would have kept if you only knew....?]

[M19]

Originally Posted by brianlcox

When I think of a J200, I think of big rythym style strumming - is this the case with the O35 walnut / cedar ? Somehow I didn't expect the cedar top to be good for that.

The Lowdens and Mac that I've owned I would not consider good for hard strumming of complex chords. Power chords sure, but as you add more complexity to the chord the natural resonances of the "LMA" soundbox can muddy things up, IMO. The thing is, you don't really have to strum very hard anyway as they are so responsive. I can get a LOT of volume out of an index fingernail strum!

[frankhond]

Originally Posted by brianlcox

When I think of a J200, I think of big rythym style strumming - is this the case with the O35 walnut / cedar ? Somehow I didn't expect the cedar top to be good for that.

With Lowden, all previous assumptions are out the window. You really have to try to understand.

I had an O23 walnut/cedar. It literally did everything, from hard strumming to soft fingerstyle, open tunings snd everything in between. The tone had some of the qualities from a J200 on steroids, but this analogy is gross injustice to the Lowden. George stated that the O shape was inspired by J200 shape, so that gives a hint of how it feels to hold one.

The walnut gives a clear quality to the notes. The cedar sounds like broken-in spruce. And the Lowden bracing adds a piano-like reverb. There is a video on youtube where Doug Young reviews an O22. Although the back is mahogany, what I hear in that video is what I heard at home with my O23.

Rosewood/cedar are richer and darker sounding. These would be less good for lots lf complex chord strumming. I personally prefer that wood combo in a smaller Lowden, and today I own a S25C. I guess the O23 would be more versatile, and the O25 more fingerstyle-ish. Lowden has a lots of videos on YT these days, one recent video shows a female guitarist strum lots of jazzy chords HARD on a walnut guitar.

Another point is that these guitars are highly responsive to strings. Different sets give very different tones.

You just have to try.

[slimey]

I have an O35 cedar and EIR. Strums fine and has quite a lot of headroom really. I have a fairly light hand but I do use a Blue Chip TAD 50 about 1.5 mm thick pick and as long as I don't get too heavy handed the sound does not break up at all.
I use the guitar as my gig instrument amplifying it with a Trance Amulet M, I'll play a mix of fingerstyle , strumming and lead lines during the gig and the O35 handles it all beautifully.
Sadly the cedar top is showing wear from areas where my fingers rub the top while strumming, I guess in another twenty years it'll look like Willy Nelson's guitar. It's such a good instrument that I expect I'll still have it .

[Tony Burns]

Another make to consider is Goodell .
When i was considering a Lowden - ( played several )
I tried a Goodell - it fill my needs a bit better -
not knocking lowden - their a phenominal instrument

[brianlcox]

Originally Posted by Tony Burns

Another make to consider is Goodell .
When i was considering a Lowden - ( played several )
I tried a Goodell - it fill my needs a bit better -
not knocking lowden - their a phenominal instrument

I agree that there are many, many amazing guitar makers around, but I'm limiting myself to what's on the used market (to save money) in the area (Switzerland) so that I can try them before buying. This is how I came up with the four choices in the original post.

[zmf]

Focus on the walnut Lowden. Because walnut and Lowden are made for each other. Light, airy tone.