Archeology and ghosts

[TBman]

My late mother-in-law was a smoker also. We still get a wisp of cigarette smell from time to time. None of our neighbors are smokers and living in a suburban home with little foot traffic makes us wonder where the smell comes from.......

We believe what we want to believe and that is our reality.

The member that posted that atoms are 99% space makes me wonder.....

Are we really here or is this someone else's dream?

I think I'll go play my guitar.....

[Murphy Slaw]

Originally Posted by gfirob

One of the most pondered Great Mysteries of the Unexplained is why Martin guitars sound better than Gibsons.

More hubris ?

[Dave Abrahamson]

I don't know about y'all....but I keep checking back waiting for Fazool to finish his stories.....

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

I've never seen an archaeologist and I don't know anyone who has.

Oh they do exist ! They are not figleaves of our imojination!

I've met two! One is a sometimes singer-guitarist, who works at one of our Naval museums but also did a lot of work on the Tony Robinson TV series "Time Team" -- he hates Robinson says he's rude and arrogant.

I also know an amateur WW2 researcher and author of about six great books about the local WW2 airfields, planes and people involved. he is working on the excavation of the RAF Spitifire that crashed in Norway in 1942. I've also flown with him a number of times.

See : https://www.spitfireaa810.co.uk/

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Dave Abrahamson

I don't know about y'all....but I keep checking back waiting for Fazool to finish his stories.....

sorry forgot - I will do so

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by gfirob

One of the most pondered Great Mysteries of the Unexplained is why Martin guitars sound better than Gibsons. Thousands have plumbed that mystery, none have solved it....

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

More hubris ?

Only if gfirob is actually CFM IV.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by fazool

I'm not arguing and don't want this to become a unwelcome discussion. I will propose two thoughts:

1) if a person has schizophrenia and they have a full experience of interacting with another person, but it was all in their head and not in the "real world", did they have the experience. I'm not asking if they imagined it. I am asking if the EXPERIENCED it. Thought #1: there is more to the experience of reality than what most believe.

2) There is, essentially no such thing as mass. An atom is 99.99999% empty space but it holds a shape because of the energy in its particles. Quantum physicists have essentially determined that as you look at smaller and smaller particles, the smallest constituents are simply made up of energy. There is no "stuff" in there - everything that makes up our world is simply energy.

I am not arguing in favor of any belief but that I personally believe there is a lot more (of and to) just this interaction with each other and our world.

I note that you are not arguing for any particular belief.

1. I don’t understand the point you are trying to make. Of course, a schizophrenic’s hallucinations seem like a genuine experience to him but they, nevertheless, are not real. Consider the case of Nobel laureate, John Nash. He was a paranoid schizophrenic who had delusional episodes where he interacted with three characters that existed only in his mind. At some point, he realizes that one of the characters, a girl, never ages and he concludes his visitors were delusional. What is the point, the one I am missing, of asking if delusional events seem real to a schizophrenic?

2. The universe’s ratio of mass to energy, whatever it may be, has no bearing on the existence of the supernatural.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by gfirob

I spent some time in England chasing ghosts for a low-rent documentary of the “Mysteries of the Unexplained” genre, and we spent a night in a “haunted” hotel with a scholar from London University, heat sensitive cameras and the last known witness to see the ghost. Astonishingly enough, the ghost did not appear. ...

I alway wonder why so-called ghostbusters think that infrared cameras are useful for detecting the supernatural?

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

I alway wonder why so-called ghostbusters think that infrared cameras are useful for detecting the supernatural?

Just "show business" I guess. Ghosts probably don't care what time of day it is either yet all the ghost hunters are running around at night. Maybe that's to cut down on noise from the live ones?

[TRose]

I have an aunt and uncle who built a beautiful home on one of the barrier islands off the coast of Georgia. Their property has the remnants of an old plantation that is well documented in the historic record but was also home to natives long before European settlers. Pottery shards and other artifacts are routinely recovered from the river that is behind their house.
Once they moved in to their house my aunt claims to have had many experiences that she believes are related to the supernatural- freshly made beds with imprints as though someone has laid on them, all the kitchen cabinets being left opened first thing in the morning, small pieces of furniture and knickknacks being moved about the house.

Being skeptical I could easily explain these occurrences. Perhaps my uncle has a REM sleep disorder and moves about in the early morning hours opening cabinets and moving stuff about. The in home video cameras, which are more common today, would have been telling, I bet.

None the less, when my grandmother ( my aunts and mother’s mother) became mortally sick, she was moved into a spare bedroom and cared for by my aunt and my mother( with the help of hospice and eventually a night nurse). During this period my aunt reported the occurrences increased. My aunt and uncle believe they could hear conversations my grandmother ( who was deaf and read lips) was having with her deceased husband, my grandfather over the baby monitor they had left in the bedroom so that my grandmother could call out to them if needed. At first my aunt and uncle thought the tv had been left on. My aunt went to the darkened room, saw the tv was off, she turned on a small lamp and my grandmother was sitting upright, awake, smiling. When asked if she were ok my grandmother said she was fine and for my aunt to go back to bed. My aunt went back to her bedroom and sat with my uncle and listened to the conversation restart and continue. So the story goes.

As my grandmother’s health declined farther my mother and aunt were desperate for some help with medication delivery, general care, etc.. I was in my last year of medical school and took an allowed 5 weeks off to help them with the care of my grandmother. I would cover the nights on the weekends when there was no night nurse and most of the day light hours, administering pain meds, encouraging nourishment, changing linens, etc.. This allowed my mom to go back to her home city for a bit and my aunt to go back to work. This was spring of 1991.

One weekend my aunt and uncle planned a weekend getaway. They left Friday afternoon and planned on returning Sunday evening. They had been gone about 45 minutes when I heard what I thought was the sound of a door shut downstairs. I then heard footsteps on the wooden floor.
I called to my aunt,” Hey Sue, what did you forget?” No answer
Then, “Sue? Sue?!”
No answer.
The footsteps continued up the wooden stairs, down a short hallway and stopped in front of the bedroom where my grandmother and I were. She was sleeping. I was listening to MTV( back when they actually played music- B52’s Roam was playing). Every hair on my body was standing upright. I then assumed that burglars had arrived and that this was how and when I/we were likely to die. I sat frozen for a few minutes and then worked up the nerve to exit the bedroom and look down the hall. It was empty.

I told my aunt about my experience upon her return and she said she wasn’t surprised. She also asked me not to share this with the night nurse because it might scare her off.

The night nurse came as scheduled Monday night and took up her post.
Early Tuesday morning we went to relieve her and she asked in an accusatorial way, “Which one of you came to check on me last night?”
My aunt and I both denied doing that.
“I don’t sleep on the job. I’m a professional. I don’t appreciate it.” She said.
She assumed we were checking to see if she was dozing, I guess. I then told my aunt we should tell her my story. My aunt agreed. So I did. She didn’t buy it. She was certain someone had walked down the hall to secretly pay them a visit.

Maybe she was right.

My grandmother died a few days after my five weeks were up. I’ve only visited that house a few times since then and I personally have not had any further strange experiences. But others have. I always intently listen to their stories.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by TRose

I have an aunt and uncle who built a beautiful home on one of the barrier islands off the coast of Georgia. Their property has the remnants of an old plantation that is well documented in the historic record but was also home to natives long before European settlers. Pottery shards and other artifacts are routinely recovered from the river that is behind their house.
Once they moved in to their house my aunt claims to have had many experiences that she believes are related to the supernatural- freshly made beds with imprints as though someone has laid on them, all the kitchen cabinets being left opened first thing in the morning, small pieces of furniture and knickknacks being moved about the house.

Being skeptical I could easily explain these occurrences. Perhaps my uncle has a REM sleep disorder and moves about in the early morning hours opening cabinets and moving stuff about. The in home video cameras, which are more common today, would have been telling, I bet.

None the less, when my grandmother ( my aunts and mother’s mother) became mortally sick, she was moved into a spare bedroom and cared for by my aunt and my mother( with the help of hospice and eventually a night nurse). During this period my aunt reported the occurrences increased. My aunt and uncle believe they could hear conversations my grandmother ( who was deaf and read lips) was having with her deceased husband, my grandfather over the baby monitor they had left in the bedroom so that my grandmother could call out to them if needed. At first my aunt and uncle thought the tv had been left on. My aunt went to the darkened room, saw the tv was off, she turned on a small lamp and my grandmother was sitting upright, awake, smiling. When asked if she were ok my grandmother said she was fine and for my aunt to go back to bed. My aunt went back to her bedroom and sat with my uncle and listened to the conversation restart and continue. So the story goes.

As my grandmother’s health declined farther my mother and aunt were desperate for some help with medication delivery, general care, etc.. I was in my last year of medical school and took an allowed 5 weeks off to help them with the care of my grandmother. I would cover the nights on the weekends when there was no night nurse and most of the day light hours, administering pain meds, encouraging nourishment, changing linens, etc.. This allowed my mom to go back to her home city for a bit and my aunt to go back to work. This was spring of 1991.

One weekend my aunt and uncle planned a weekend getaway. They left Friday afternoon and planned on returning Sunday evening. They had been gone about 45 minutes when I heard what I thought was the sound of a door shut downstairs. I then heard footsteps on the wooden floor.
I called to my aunt,” Hey Sue, what did you forget?” No answer
Then, “Sue? Sue?!”
No answer.
The footsteps continued up the wooden stairs, down a short hallway and stopped in front of the bedroom where my grandmother and I were. She was sleeping. I was listening to MTV( back when they actually played music- B52’s Roam was playing). Every hair on my body was standing upright. I then assumed that burglars had arrived and that this was how and when I/we were likely to die. I sat frozen for a few minutes and then worked up the nerve to exit the bedroom and look down the hall. It was empty.

I told my aunt about my experience upon her return and she said she wasn’t surprised. She also asked me not to share this with the night nurse because it might scare her off.

The night nurse came as scheduled Monday night and took up her post.
Early Tuesday morning we went to relieve her and she asked in an accusatorial way, “Which one of you came to check on me last night?”
My aunt and I both denied doing that.
“I don’t sleep on the job. I’m a professional. I don’t appreciate it.” She said.
She assumed we were checking to see if she was dozing, I guess. I then told my aunt we should tell her my story. My aunt agreed. So I did. She didn’t buy it. She was certain someone had walked down the hall to secretly pay them a visit.

Maybe she was right.

My grandmother died a few days after my five weeks were up. I’ve only visited that house a few times since then and I personally have not had any further strange experiences. But others have. I always intently listen to their stories.

Tom, your story was better than the movie I watched last night on Netflix (Ghost Story). Some actor in a sheet for almost 2 hours,

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

...1. I don’t understand the point you are trying to make. Of course, a schizophrenic’s hallucinations seem like a genuine experience to him but they, nevertheless, are not real.....

Ahhhh therein lies my entire point. Define the world "real" (thats rhetorical I don't really mean to do so). What is "reality?" If the schizophrenic experienced all those things then dies, did they in their lifetime not have those experiences (that they experienced) ?

Simply because more people experienced one reality, doesn't mean a different person didn't experience a different reality. I agree it's not the same and I'm not saying it's good (or bad) - just different but no less "real" to that person.

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

...2. The universe’s ratio of mass to energy, whatever it may be, has no bearing on the existence of the supernatural.

Ahhh but again, (I think) it does. The very deepest thinkers in the world who are striving to define our very existence, are reaching the conclusion that the entirety of the universe is made up of just energy. There is no "stuff".

That matters (pun intended) because a) the universe is not at all what we think or percieve and b) how and why is energy manifest?

[TBman]

Originally Posted by fazool

Ahhh but again, (I think) it does. The very deepest thinkers in the world who are striving to define our very existence, are reaching the conclusion that the entirety of the universe is made up of just energy. There is no "stuff".

I guess they've never smacked their finger with a hammer......

[Kerbie]

Originally Posted by fazool

There is, essentially no such thing as mass.

In physics, I think there are too many different uses and definitions of the term, "mass," to make that sweeping a statement. General relativity disagrees with you.

[Gobo]

I don't believe in ghosts but I won't say there is no such thing. I think we are all a part of the Universe briefly expressing itself.