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Old 02-22-2019, 05:04 AM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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Default carbon fibre guitar dimensions

2023-12-10 - end of production at RainSong
2023-12-10 - added Enya X3, NEXG-2
2023-01-02 - added Enya guitars and ukuleles
2021-03-05 - added Ovation Adamas series
2021-03-06 - added weights and nut size where available
2021-02-21 - added CA: X thin body, GX, Legacy dreadnought
2021-02-21 - added info about Rainsong N1 6-string necks and 12 string necks available again
2020-10-13 - added Synergy Instruments
2019-05-02 - added a summary for Martin comparative dimensions
2019-05-14 - added Kestrel to the Emerald summary
2019-05-14 - added more dimensions here and there



Good morning.

This info may be useful to those who aren't able to try out the carbon fibre guitars of interest to them. Probably not useful to those who've bought one or more.


There is a summary for each brand.


Dimensions in inches are overall length, soundbox width x depth x length, scale length. Dimensions such as 3.6/4.2 are min/max of depth or fullside/cutoutside etc.

The ones I've played (and measured) are noted **.

Info was collected over the last year or so, and are 'close enough' based on measurement *, company specifications, forum info.

Info on company websites includes company perspective, models, prices, dealers.



+ You can use dimensions to compare to known sizes: dreadnaught, grand concert, parlour, etc. There is a summary of comparative size data copied from the Martin Guitars website.

+ Expected loudness is proportional to soundbox size - same as for wood guitars. Loudness of carbon fibre guitars is approx the same as wood guitars (my ears say very slightly less loud but not enough to matter).


Carbon fibre guitars sound much the same as wood guitars, and the sound is well received by listeners.

Compared side by side the best wood guitars may sound a bit better. For most carbon fibre owners the practicality far outweighs the small differences, and many end up preferring carbon fibre sound. Note that carbon fibre is priced in the premium guitar range so needs to have competitive sound quality.


Same as for wood guitars, variations in design and materials gives variation in tone. Carbon fibre guitars tend to be on the bright side with clear well defined notes (pianoish) ie on the spruce/mahogany/maple side of the wood guitar spectrum. With two decades experience in design and buyer preferences, companies now offer a range of well received tones.


Choice of guitar strings can modify the tone a bit, same as for wood guitars.


Sound clip samples on websites are useful but very a lot in fidelity. As usual, be aware of variations from listening through tiny device speakers vs monitors/headphones, recording room dynamics (same differences as guitar showrooms vs home environments), recording position (adjacent vs across the room), microphone type, recording loudness, recording density, compression, clipping, etc.


Of course, the major selling point for carbon fibre is durability in severe conditions:
- low humidity in homes in cold climate during the winter heating season
- high humidity in some climates summer and winter
- hot humid outdoors
- cool/cold/damp outdoors
- time in very hot/cold vehicles
- bumping and knocking: stages, children, pets, travel, adventuring


The price of carbon fibre guitars is in premium ranges ($1000-1500, $2K, $3K, $4K) because the cost of startup and production is high, and the resulting low sales do not invite bigger companies to do the investments in methods and equipment needed to drive down costs.


Companies are small: 6-12 people with annual sales approx 300-1200 guitars (similar to boutique wood guitar companies). I'm guessing that industry total annual sales are 4000-6000.

By comparison the largest companies (Yamaha,Martin, Taylor, Gibson, Godin, etc) produce 100,000 to 200,000+ wood acoustic guitars annually


Please feel free to add info to this discussion.

.

Last edited by casualmusic; 12-10-2023 at 04:03 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-22-2019, 05:18 AM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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Note:

Retirement:
. Rainsong ownership is retiring.
. Production of guitars ended Nov 2023
. Remaining stock and equipment are being cleared out.

Appreciation:
. Many thanks to Rainsong for pioneering and pathfinding the niche market for carbon fibre guitars
. Good products, full range of guitars, innovations, good production volumes
. Based on serial numbers almost 30,000 guitars were sold during three decades, averaging approx 1200 guitars in recent years
. Prices were comparable to mid range Martins, Gibsons, Taylor’s. Some series such as the CH series and Classic Reissue series were aimed at folks with middling budgets.
. Rainsong’s business decisions show a realistic understanding of their small niche market, the guitar distribution chain for niche products, costs of carbon fibre fabrication, production with US employees, the competition from peer companies, and the competition from new companies with lower cost technologies.
. Enthusiasts are hoping that the Rainsong guitar business will be acquired and continued by a new owner.



+++++++++++++++++++++++

Rainsong:

rainsong.com

P14 parlour 14 fret *
- cutout, 39 x 13.3, 14 fret @25.4 @1.75
- P12 is 12 fret @24.9 @1.75

CH-PA parlour *
- cutout, 37.8 x 13.3 x 4.1 x 18.8, 12 fret @24.9 @1.75
- optional 14 fret @25.4 @1.75

CH-OM *, Shorty, FLE
- cutout, 38.5 x 15.2 x 4.1 x 19.5, 12 fret @24.9 @1.75
- optional 14 fret @25.4 @1.75

CH-WS * windsong
- cutout, 38.5 x 15.8 x 5.0 x 19.5, 12 fret @24.9 @1.75
- optional 14 fret 25.4 @1.75

H-DR * dreadnaught
- no cutout, 40 x 16 x 5 x 20, 14 fret @25.4 @1.75
- optional 12 fret 24.9 @1.75

JM jumbo
- no cutout, 41 x 17 x 5 x 21 @25.4 @1.75, 4.3 pounds
- optional 12 fret 24.9 @1.75


- Rainsong uses the same soundbox dimensions and necks (same aluminum molds) for its guitars: PA parlour cutout, OM orchestra cutout, WS windsong cutout, DR dreadnaught no cutout, JM jumbo, no cutout


- There are several model lineups using various combinations of materials to achieve different tone, offer different trim, at different price ranges


- $75 tobacco burst or marine burst are colour options available special order. (examples of previous colours and patterns can be found through websearch). The availability of burst colours is not mentioned on the website and may not be known to some dealers - invite your dealer to check with the company.


- On some (all?) models there is a choice of necks with no extra cost:
• NS D shape 12 fret 24.9" medium scale with truss rod
• N2 D shape 14 fret 25.4" long scale with truss rod
• N1 C shape 14 fret 25.4" long scale without truss rod (original design was discontinued now available again).



12-string neck
• version of the N1 C shape neck (no truss rod) was discontinued now available again

CH-xx series (now discontinued) was aimed at workaday musicians at an affordable $1350 w/o electronics or $1500 with pickup.


- A list of dealers is on the website. Due to slow sales of carbon fibre guitars most dealers stock few samples and order from the factory with approx one month delivery. Exceptions are LAguitarsales.com and Guitarhanger.com with dozen(s) in stock.


- PDF list of common combinations and prices is on the website home page.

.

Last edited by casualmusic; 12-10-2023 at 04:12 AM. Reason: End of production
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  #3  
Old 02-22-2019, 05:22 AM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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CA Composite Acoustics

compositeacoustics.com

Specifications: https://peavey.com/ItemFiles/SpecSheet/118074_25721.pdf

Cargo travel *, beveled and curved for playing comfort
36 x 13.3 x 3 x 16.5 @22.5; nut 1.75

CX concert model
??

OX orchestra model *
42 x 15 x 4 x 20/17.5 @25.5

X thin body
42 x 15.25 x 3.1 x 20 @25.5; nut 1.76

GX small jumbo
42 x 16 x 4.7 x 20 @25.5; nut 1.75 or 1.69

Legacy dreadnought
41 x 16 x 4.5 x 20 @25.5; nut 1.76

» guitar weights are not listed by CA


- Sales are through dealers. Occasional old stock only.

- Now owned by the Peavey Music group

*** CA carbon fibre guitars discontinued in 2020.

.

Last edited by casualmusic; 05-19-2023 at 05:42 PM.
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  #4  
Old 02-22-2019, 05:27 AM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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McPherson (they also make premium wood guitars)

Touring **
36 x 13.5 x 4 x 17/14.5 @22.5 @ 4.2 lbs

Sable, aka Kévin Michael **
42 x 15 x 4 x 20/17 @25.5 @5.5 lbs

.

Last edited by casualmusic; 03-02-2021 at 10:38 PM.
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  #5  
Old 02-22-2019, 05:29 AM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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Blackbird:

blackbirdguitar.com

Savoy small 0 - eKoa
36 x 13.5 x 4.25 x ?? @24.5 @nut 1.75 @3.75 lbs

El Capitan small jumbo - eKoa
41 x 16 x 4.25 x ?? @25.5 @nut 1.75 @4.75 lbs

Clara ukulele - concert size pineapple shape
• eKoa 24" x 8" x 3" x ?? @nut 1.4" @1.1 lbs

Farallon ukulele - tenor size traditional shape
• eKoa version 26.5" x 9.35" x 3.25" x ?? @nut 1.4" @1.3 lbs
• carbon fibre version discontinued

- current models use enviro eKoa - linen reinforced Eco polyester resin
- older carbon fibre models are discontinued
- Direct sales
- Build to order.

.

Last edited by casualmusic; 04-19-2021 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:31 AM
kramster kramster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casualmusic View Post
McPherson (they also make wood guitars)

.
They had a wood guitar at NAMM that listed for $100,000.00 a few years ago... so the CFs are a bargain and their least expensive line (not Florida Georgia Line that play McPhersons in some videos)
__________________
YUP....
Emerald: X-20, Center hole X-10 (Maple) and X-7 (redwood), Spalted Chen Chen X 10 level 3,
CA: Early OX and Cargo
McPherson: Early Kevin Michael Proto
Some wood things by Epi, Harmony, Takamine, Good Time, PRS, Slick, Gypsy Music, keyboards, wind controllers.. etc
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:38 AM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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Journey Instruments

journeyinstruments.com

OF660: backpack overhead, removable neck - click and twist lock, six colours $1300
36 x 12.5 x 3.4/4.6 x 18 @24.5 @1.75 @ 4.1 lbs

OF660 bass: backpack overhead, removable neck - click and twist lock, six colours $1300
36 x 12.5 x 3.4/4.6 x 18 @ 24.5 @ 4.1 lbs

RT660 roadtrip: removable neck - two bolts, six colours $1300
36.5 x 14.5 x 3.5/4.8 x ?? @24.5 @1.75 2.25 @3.7 lbs


OF420 * backpack removable neck (all wood)
36 x 12

Many OF series GA, Classical, etc (all wood)
??

- OF models pack into a small suitcase/backpack that qualifies for aircraft overhead bins.
- Soundboxes are Manzer wedged and have bevelled edges for playing comfort.

- sold through dealers and by mail order direct
.

Last edited by casualmusic; 03-01-2021 at 06:57 PM. Reason: weights of guitars
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  #8  
Old 02-22-2019, 05:55 AM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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Emerald Guitars:

emeraldguitars.com

2023: expanded factory and equipment means expansion of annual production from 5-600 guitars to 1000+ in 2023 and capacity for more


X7 2018+ new version
34.3 x 14.2 x 4.5 x 18 @24 @ 1 3/4 @ 3.85 lbs

X7 2018 (previous version) discontinued
34 x 13.4 x 3.7 x 16.5 @24

X10 2018+ new model aimed at electric guitar players
37.8 x 14.8 x 4.8 x 18 @25.5 @ 1 11/16 @ 4.0 lbs

X10N 2016 nylon EvanB special (1 of 1)
39 x 14.5 x 4 x 17.5 @25.6

X20
40 x 15.3 x 4.8 x 19 @25.5 @ 1 3/4 @ 4.4 lbs

X20 baritone
40 x 15.5 x 4.8 x 19 @27 @ 1 3/4 @ 4.4 lbs

X30 2018+ new model
39.5 x 17 x 5.8 x 21 @25.5 @ 1 3/4 @ 4.8 lbs

Kestrel archtop electric - intro May 2019
41.5 x 16.5 x 3.5 x20 @25.5 @ 1 3/4 @ 4.4

Amicus very short scale 12 string tuned D-D ie capo 10th fret
32 x 12 3/16 x 3.0 x 15 3/8 @ 1 15/16 @ 3.5 lbs

Balor bass
49 x 18 x 7 x 25 3/16 @ 1 5/8 @ 6 lbs

Chimera double neck - usually 6-string + 12-string
41 x 17 x 4 x 19 @ 5.7 lbs



X5 discontinued
??

T8 discontinued
??

T10 discontinued
??

T30 discontinued
??


- Direct sales build to order via website or email.

- Standard models offer choice of 4 colours.

- Soundboxes have bevels and curves for playing comfort.

- Offers extensive customization including necks, custom colours, wood veneer tops, etc


.

Last edited by casualmusic; 12-10-2023 at 03:50 AM.
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Old 02-22-2019, 06:43 AM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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Klos:

klosguitars.com

Travel size - micro dreadnought shape
33 x 11.5 x 3.5 x15 @24.75, nut 1 11/16
• hybrid removeable wood neck - four screws, 2.86 lbs, 12 colours, $640+
• removeable carbon fibre neck - four screws, 3.32 lbs, $1100+

Full size - mini dreadnought shape
40 x 15.3 x 4.3 X 19 @24.75, nut 1 11/16
• hybrid removeable wood neck - four screws, weight n/a, $940+
• removeable carbon fibre neck - four screws, weight n/a, $1400+

Ukulele - tenor size - nano dreadnought shape
25 x 9.2 x ?? x 12 @17, nut 1.3"
• hybrid wood neck, 1.36 lbs, $540+
• carbon fibre neck, 1,80 lbs, $1000+

- Traditional shapes no cutout
- Colours available on older model

- Direct sales via website
- new model introductions via crowd funding pre-order
.

Last edited by casualmusic; 02-22-2021 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:54 AM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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The dimensions give you some facts, but holding each guitar tells the real story. As an example, my Emerald X20 is larger than my Taylor 522ce 12-fret, but the X20 feels more comfortable due to the curves and bevels. The RainSong Shorty I had (pretty much the same as their CH-OM) felt very similar to the 522 (but with a thicker neck on the Shorty).

You can compare dimensions, but without the guitars in-hand, you don't have the whole story.
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:22 AM
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Casual;

Interesting stuff. As the captain point outs, the dimensions do not tell the whole story, but they are a good start to finding a guitar that fits.

The information had to have taken some time to gather and I appreciate the work involved. Thank you.
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:44 AM
JimCA JimCA is offline
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I'm a numbers guy, so I find it useful to see these comparative dimensions. I'm a bevels and curves guy too, since I have 2 Emeralds.

Casual, you show new X7 body length longer than new X10 body length. On Emerald's site they're both listed at 18".
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Old 02-23-2019, 08:25 AM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimCA View Post

Casual, you show new X7 body length longer than new X10 body length. On Emerald's site they're both listed at 18".
Fixed. Thanks.
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Old 02-23-2019, 09:18 AM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
The dimensions give you some facts, but holding each guitar tells the real story. As an example, my Emerald X20 is larger than my Taylor 522ce 12-fret, but the X20 feels more comfortable due to the curves and bevels. The RainSong Shorty I had (pretty much the same as their CH-OM) felt very similar to the 522 (but with a thicker neck on the Shorty).

You can compare dimensions, but without the guitars in-hand, you don't have the whole story.

Hi Jim.

Added a (mild) comment about bevels to the Emerald and Journey summaries.

Have not played an Emerald so any more would be hearsay.

I'd like this thread to not advocate for or against features offered by any brand.

Lots of room for advice and opinions on threads asking for guidance.


Disclosures:

I don't have well earned contours that could benefit from bevels and curves.

I'm not comfortable hugging mechanicals, OK with hugging biologicals.

Last year chose à squarish Telecaster over the curved Stratocaster.

Diverse tastes eh? I've no appreciation for heated car seats or heated steering wheels (despite the nagging to use features paid for). Heated outside mirrors are nice but don't need hugging.


Cheers.

.

Last edited by casualmusic; 02-23-2019 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 02-23-2019, 10:04 AM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casualmusic View Post
Hi Jim.

Added a (mild) comment about bevels to the Emerald and Journey summaries.

Have not played an Emerald so any more would be hearsay.

I'd like this thread to not advocate for or against features offered by any brand.

Lots of room for advice and opinions on threads asking for guidance.


Disclosures:

I don't have well earned contours that could benefit from bevels and curves.

I'm not comfortable hugging mechanicals, OK with hugging biologicals.

Last year chose à squarish Telecaster over the curved Stratocaster.

Diverse tastes eh? I've no appreciation for heated car seats or heated steering wheels (despite the nagging to use features paid for). Heated mirrors are nice but don't need hugging.

Cheers.

.
Hi Casualmusic,

My first Emerald was a previous generation X7. With the smaller body size, I expected it to be comfortable. What I discovered: the rounded edges and bevels make it a delight to hold and play. It doesn't have to be a dread or a jumbo to have improved ergonomics. I have a Taylor GSmini that was my "small, comfortable guitar"... the curves and bevels on the X7 make it far more comfortable to me. It added "another dimension" to any consideration I have for future guitar purchases.

Both the Strat and the Telecaster are thin guitars compared to any acoustic. For some personal perspective, I think they are both good looking (classic), comfortable electric guitars, but I would go with the Strat over the Tele. Personal taste is certainly an important factor when choosing any instrument. I wasn't particularly keen on the style of the Emeralds until I got that X7, and came to understand and appreciate why they are designed the way they are. Now, other traditional acoustic guitars look "old fashioned" to me. Part of why I find the Stat better looking than the Tele, I guess. But, tastes do change.

Thanks for gathering the body dimensions in one place.
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