Laminate, does exterior wood layer really determine sound?

[Tico]

I can understand solid mahogany, rosewood, maple, koa, etc. affecting the sound of a guitar.

But really, if back and sides are laminate and only the exterior and visible layer is one of the famous tonewoods can that layer really determine the sound?

[cooper59]

Originally Posted by Tico

I can understand solid mahogany, rosewood, maple, koa, etc. affecting the sound of a guitar.

But really, if back and sides are laminate and only the exterior and visible layer is one of those woods can that layer really determine the sound?

doesn't matter what the laminated is it doesn't effect sound

[MrMartyr]

Originally Posted by cooper59

doesn't matter what the laminated is it doesn't effect sound

I disagree. Two thin layers of wood held together by glue and a middle layer of something else is going to sound different than a solid piece of wood. The density and rigidity are different.

[Russ C]

My post is only reasoning, not knowledge.
I figure the state of being laminated will up front cancel most of a timber's "natural" tone but beyond that the structure of the layers (or what they ARE) has some bearing on the behaviour of the product and what it sounds like.
How much, will vary and never be agreed on.

[robj144]

The veneer has no effect on the sound which is why most laminates sound the same if they're the same model with different veneers. It's the middle layer that determines the sound characteristics.

[flaggerphil]

Really...it depends.

IMHO.

[Clifdawg]

This is also speculation, but I would imagine a laminate's sound qualities would depend on a number of factors. How many layers, what those layers are made of, what kind of glue used, whether resin was involved in the process, etc.

For instance, every Martin X-series guitar I've played has a totally unique quality to the sound (not bad, mind you, just *different*) compared to other, like-shaped instruments with layered laminates and all-solid woods. I should guess that an HPL would sound different than a five-layer particle laminate, which would sound different than a three-layer all-hardwood laminate, which would sound different than an all-solid guitar, etc.

[Tico]

I hereby rephrase my question ...

If everything about the laminations is identical can changing only the outer layer of wood affect the sound?

Granted, this is hypothetical as maker X may use different laminate woods and/or different numbers of layers for their various exteranl tonewoods.

But keeping the laminate constant is the only way to discuss the central question.

[MrMartyr]

Originally Posted by Tico

I hereby rephrase my question ...

If everything about the laminations is identical can changing only the outer layer of wood affect the sound?

Yes. The wood of the outer layer effects the density and rigidity of the board.

[mercy]

I dont know the answer to your question but I do know that lam b/s guitars sound different and have a different feel, soul, than solid of the same model.

[Clifdawg]

Originally Posted by Tico

I hereby rephrase my question...

... And I shall hereby revise my answer

I would say yes, but only slightly... especially if its a thin veneer applied over a different wood. In that case, I would suspect the differences would be very subtle, if not completely indistinguishable.

[robj144]

Originally Posted by Tico

I hereby rephrase my question ...

If everything about the laminations is identical can changing only the outer layer of wood affect the sound?

Granted, this is hypothetical as maker X may use different laminate woods and/or different numbers of layers for their various exteranl tonewoods.

But keeping the laminate constant is the only way to discuss the central question.

Bob Taylor has said the external veneer has no affect on sound. I also think this is true.

[merlin666]

With a laminate guitar, it's mainly the glue that contributes to sound.

[Tico]

Originally Posted by merlin666

With a laminate guitar, it's mainly the glue that contributes to sound.

So, does glue made from rosewood trees sound different from glue made from mahogany trees?

Seriously, I believe your response was tongue in cheek, no?

[Tico]

Originally Posted by robj144

Bob Taylor has said the external veneer has no affect on sound. I also think this is true.

I have zero expertise in this, but that seems reasonable to me.