V-bracing and Taylor's Marketing Machine... so NOT impressed.

[Picker2]

Originally Posted by Ed-in-Ohio

Here's a video of Andy Powers being asked, and answering this exact question:

Really, Andy says nothing here. He should have explained HOW the intonation improves rather than THAT it improves, and also explain where the extra energy (needed for more volume AND sustain) went in the older Taylor models.
Not impressed. Not at all.

And his high E is a little sharp high on the neck (3:45).

"It's a hard one for a lot of guitar players to understand."(4:12)

That's the only meaningful remark in this interview. I'm losing my sympathy for Taylor BIG TIME. Bob, what did you do... :-(

[Woodstock School Of Music]

Everything I've heard so far sounds like good old fashioned over the top marketing to me.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Picker2

OK folks, here is some Marketing that even the Taylor Marketeers can still learn from...

LOL



Thanks to barno on gitaarnet.nl

Perfect.

Struggles in the personal products and hygiene areas made the news earlier in the week. Taylor's marketing department could rescue toilet paper.

[Picker2]

Originally Posted by pleasurepaul

...If that resonance frequency happens to be close to a scale note (dependant on the chosen reference pitch of course), the top's resonance can push that note off pitch, leading to an intonation problem.

True. But the effect is minimal. The tap tone of a guitar has a MUCH lower volume than any string being played. Moreover, it is only the case for the fundamental resonance frequency of the top, which is just one single note, and maybe one or two more. Not for every note on the guitar, and certainly not for those high up the neck.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Ed-in-Ohio

I'm pretty sure I heard the word "obsolete" being used to reference traditional bracing compared to the new V-bracing in a video from NAMM yesterday, but now I can't find it. However, there is this video, with the following comments from Andy Powers. Not as critical, but still unfortunate to hear if you just spent several thousand dollars on a Taylor.

"It's painful to go backwards! You get use to this... and say, 'Oh Man, I don't want to give that up!'"

"There are things you have worked around, and once those barriers are taken away..."



and in this video, "...a level of 'in-tuneness' that we haven't had before." So, all previous Taylor guitars aren't really in tune high on the fretboard?



Again, I don't have a horse in this race, and I'm a pretty big Taylor fan over all, but I must admit, I am also glad I hadn't decided to buy a "lifetime" Taylor guitar up to this point.

Oh, I should add that both these videos are great, and Powers is clearly enthusiastic about the new bracing!

Yep, Taylor has always been bad for this. Push a new product and then all of a sudden it's crap and they are on to something new. It's not unique to Taylor but they are terrible for that.

[PiousDevil]

Originally Posted by Texsunburst59

The OP took a shot a Taylor, and I thought if any guitar maker, it'd be aimed more at Martin with their $100K guitars.

This thread is in reference specifically to Taylor's recent ad campaign regarding the V-bracing.

Also, you seem upset. Perhaps you should take a step back and realize that you shouldn't get emotionally defensive over a guitar manufacturer.

[PiousDevil]

Alright, why are youtube videos no longer showing up for me on this forum?

[jazzguy]

I'm shocked, shocked I say that he would make the claim to produce the best firewood on earth! LOL Hilarious video...

[Jasper64]

Picker2. Why are you hatin on Taylor so bad? It’s like you can’t post enough bad. Don’t buy one. Go with what you like. Different strokes you know.... no need to hate unless you could build one better. I certainly can’t. It’s all good.

[hairpuller]

Be careful guys! Some of you might end up in their next creation stroking the necks, polishing the pegs, and sniffing the soundholes.
scott

[peter.coombe]

Braving and intonation. Bracing influences top resonance frequency. If that resonance frequency happens to be close to a scale note (dependant on the chosen reference pitch of course), the top's resonance can push that note off pitch, leading to an intonation problem. So a bracing system can only improve intonation when it is able to move the top's resonance peak to a place right between scale notes. That needs specific tuning of the braces, and is not related to a general bracing layout. That is the way I understand it. And then there's main air and back resonance as well. See Trevor Gore.

Exactly right. Using a different bracing system is not going to improve intonation unless the modes of vibration are tuned between notes for each individual guitar. That is not going to happen for CNC manufactured mass produced guitars. Each piece of wood is different so each guitar will tune differently. I fail to understand how what Taylor are claiming about intonation can actually work, or even if it works at all, and I have been making musical instruments for 25 years. I would like to get one in my hands and play it and also do some measurements before coming to any conclusions, but I very much doubt it will affect intonation as most of us understand intonation to mean. What I can say is that the A brace is likely more efficient in counteracting rotation of the bridge than an X, and thus the mass of the bracing can be lowered. This, together with changes in stiffness across the top is likely to make a guitar sound different. How different I don't know unless I try it myself. As already has been pointed out, the braces do not divide the top into different areas, the top vibrates in whole together with the back and enclosed air as a complex system. The modes of vibration will be the same, but the frequencies may be shifted around a bit. Now as for the claim that it makes a guitar sound the same up the neck as down the neck, Luthiers making hand made guitars have been doing that for many years. Count me as a sceptic.

[Texsunburst59]

Originally Posted by PiousDevil

This thread is in reference specifically to Taylor's recent ad campaign regarding the V-bracing.

Also, you seem upset. Perhaps you should take a step back and realize that you shouldn't get emotionally defensive over a guitar manufacturer.

I'm sure you're aware if you'd been here for a while on this forum, that Taylor is constantly bashed by the Martin fan boys.

It's no problem with the Martin clan puts down Taylor any way they can, but no one says anything about Martin's $100K guitars.

I'm sure there's some magical glue, bracing or specially age wood that would make these Martin guitars that expensive.

[PiousDevil]

Originally Posted by Texsunburst59

I'm sure you're aware if you'd been here for a while on this forum, that Taylor is constantly bashed by the Martin fan boys.

It's no problem with the Martin clan puts down Taylor any way they can, but no one says anything about Martin's $100K guitars.

I'm sure there's some magical glue, bracing or specially age wood that would make these Martin guitars that expensive.

We made fun of the $100k Martin guitar for months after it was released. Did you take a break from the forum during that time? And I rarely see anybody put down Taylor on this forum, this forum is very Taylor friendly. You seem to be coming unhinged, friend. The internet is not your enemy.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Texsunburst59

I'm sure you're aware if you'd been here for a while on this forum, that Taylor is constantly bashed by the Martin fan boys.



It's no problem with the Martin clan puts down Taylor any way they can, but no one says anything about Martin's $100K guitars.



I'm sure there's some magical glue, bracing or specially age wood that would make these Martin guitars that expensive.

You may have missed the point or misread the thread. The OP is a Taylor player and fan. He is not a fan of their marketing, which he find disingenuous. I am also a Taylor guitar fan and find their new marketing distasteful. Martin has produced some equally insane marketing claims on occasion.

[robj144]

I know physics as well as have studied the physics of the guitar a little, but not a lot. Clearly, the strings produce there own notes which are governed solely by fret placement and compensation. Of course, being not perfectly rigid and also adding extra tension when pressing the strings to the fretboard compromises perfect intonation which is always a problem.

Now, I'm not an expert on this by any means, but the strings are also obviously coupled to the guitar. The guitar has its own normal modes which reinforce and dampen various string harmonics... they might even distort them. This is, of course, due to the shape of the guitar and how it is braced (and coupled to the strings).

So, he could, scientifically, be claiming that with a different bracing pattern the harmonic series produced by the strings could be less distorted or shifted
when coupled to the guitar than other bracing patterns.

I don't know if that's true, but you can argue this could be true.

I don't think it's overly egregious.