Justin King, beyond Leo Kotkke?

[newton]

It's actually kind of a blown thread because I didn't think too much about giving it a better title. Blown thread or frayed knot, either way.

But I have searched for any evidence of guitar smacking by Leo Kottke (whose technical ability is exceptional) and I have say that, I think it's an apples to oranges comparison at best. It would be interesting to see how well these two musicians could cover each others compositions though. It would be interesting to see if their respective arrangements stayed the same or if they took each others work in different directions, while still being faithful to the intent of the original work.

hey man, ...is it getting deep in here, or is it just me?

[Guit Hacker]

Hijack the thread for the term "better".

Who's better;
Steve Vai or Joe Satriani
Eric Clapton or Jeff Beck
SRV or Albert King
Michael Hedges or Alex deGrassi
John McLaughlin or Al Di Meola

The list could go on forever. They have all reached a point where they have the ability to hit all the right notes and evoke passion, at will. Lot's of people can hit the right notes (Yngwie), but does it move you? When someone has reached this level there isn't one who's better than the rest. They're just different and I have my preferences.

I can safely say that ALL of these guitarist are "better" than me. I can't hit all the right notes and I can't always tap into the "passion". That's what separates the greats from people like me. I have my moments, but they're fleeting at best.

[Guit Hacker]

Originally Posted by newton

It would be interesting to see if their respective arrangements stayed the same or if they took each others work in different directions, while still being faithful to the intent of the original work.

I would love to hear that. However, I hope they would change them. It's so boring to try to do a literal interpretation. Most musicians have their own style and that's why we love/hate them. I personally love hearing covers by established artists. Actually I started a thread about it not too long ago.

There is video (somewhere) of Don Ross doing an impromptu Michael Hedges cover.

Sorry for the hijack.

[gmm55]

Originally Posted by Guit Hacker

I apparently can't have a personal opinion without it being attacked. In response I have removed my opinion and will become a mindless drone for the rest of this thread.

Art is art and we all have differing opinions. That is the beauty in it.

Attack? None was intended. If anything, I was indeed curious about how we (meaning you, me, and everyone else) actually define better. As a concession and good will gesture, I will freely admit that everyone you mentioned is indeed much better than me, as probably you are too

[newton]

Originally Posted by Guit Hacker

Hijack the thread for the term "better".

Who's better;
Steve Vai or Joe Satriani
Eric Clapton or Jeff Beck
SRV or Albert King
Michael Hedges or Alex deGrassi
John McLaughlin or Al Di Meola

The list could go on forever....

Tommy Bolin or Robin Trower?

Pat Martino or ....hmmmm

[Bern]

Originally Posted by Ryan Alexander

He is an interesting player, a bit flashy and repetitive for my taste - I personally don't feel he compares to Kottke at all

My feeling as well...although, technically impressive, musically it doesn't move me at all.

[birkenweg42]

To me the difference between Leo Kottke and Justing King is that Leo has composed a couple of hundred tunes that all sound different but still sound like Leo and nobody else.
Justin King has probably composed a lot less but sounds, at least to me, like all the other slappers and tappers out there. I can't hear much of a difference between most of these songs. I think their technique is awesome and they are, just like Leo once was, pioneers. I just wish it would be a little more melody based.

[Neal]

The guy's good. No doubt. However he's a different genre than Leo. Totally different. You should compare him to Mckee or Hedges or...... any one of the tappers out there.

Leo's not a tapper in trade. He's a musician. With a keen sense of fingers. Not that this guy isn't, just a different sense, thus a different genre, get it?

[newton]

Originally Posted by Neal

The guy's good. No doubt. However he's a different genre than Leo. Totally different. You should compare him to Mckee or Hedges or...... any one of the tappers out there.

Leo's not a tapper in trade. He's a musician. With a keen sense of fingers. Not that this guy isn't, just a different sense, thus a different genre, get it?

Yes. I surrender. Leo The Lion Hearted wins. It had the potential to be a good thread, but I started it off wrong. I was just more impressed by the way he (Justtin) was playing the "Doolin Double Neck" guitar.

So the threads not getting hijacked, I just gave a stupid title cause I wasn't really thinking ahead about what people would post.

I think I made the connection between the two people because of what they have in common, actually.

When I saw the "Leo Kottke Signature Model" 12-string Taylor cut-away in the store at Wildwood Guitars 6 or 7 years ago?, the guys were like "Yeah, sure, Play it". It was supposedly setup to spec. So, I always told myself that if I ever had the money, that guitar was going to be mine. Of course it never happened.

Anyway, the point is that I wanted to be able to make some of Leo's moves while holding "his" guitar and I just can't. Now, after seeing what Justin King does with a Doolin Double Neck Guitar, It's G.A.S. dejavu all over again for me.

So, If I got my hands on that double neck, I would want to make the same kind of moves that I see in the clip, and I wouldn't have an ice cubes chance in hell of pulling it off. I will have to spend more money on lessons and, max out the guitar that I have before I can justify getting a second guitar.

[Neal]

Hey, no doubt, the guys real good. Go for it.

[mmmaak]

Originally Posted by newton

I could not play like that even if I practiced for the rest of my entire life.

Not sure I would *want* to

[sehnsucht77]

Originally Posted by gmm55

Certainly some can play faster, or with greater complicity as might be revealed by a statistical analysis of note permutations, and somehow I think this is how some players are defined as better.

if it were that simple and reductionist, music would never occupy a niche in society that is meant to touch feelings. i am a scientist by trade and i think that is an oversimplification of something as complex a phenomena as music.

more accurately, "better" should carry the following criteria in addition to technical ability - feel, soul, ingenuity, flexibility, content and, most of all, your music gets a reaction out of your audience.

[newton]

Ensemble Contests. All musicians will ultimately be judged by their vibrato.

Submitted for your perusal:
http://www.iesa.org/documents/activi...onCriteria.pdf

Acoustic Guitar
1. Tone: Quality, Control
2. Intonation: Pitch Accuracy, Vibrato
3. Right Hand Technique: Strumming, Picking, Accuracy
4. Left Hand Technique: Fluency, Note Accuracy, Positions
5. Rhythm: Accuracy, Steady Tempo
6. Interpretation: General Musicianship, Tempo, Phrasing
7. Other Factors: Posture, Stage Presence, Tuning


So you see dear readers. There is a way to quantify a musicians ability. 2nd chair must challenge 1st chair to move up. Skills can be measured and verified by having musicians compete against each other by playing the same piece of music.

[rmyAddison]

Nevermind..................really!

[Trego]

first post here, but I just wanted to input that one thing that makes Justin King so good is his versatality. Not only does he do the tapping and slapping, but he writes incredible pop music too. Love or hate the pop part, I give anyone credit who can originally and creatively make a song get stuck in my head. I qould pick listening to an album of Justin King over Jason Mraz or John Mayer anyday.

IMHO