#16
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I've 20 years experience operating and testing vehicles from all major manufacturers, of all drivetrain styles, with nearly all modern tire types, at the GM proving grounds, Chrysler proving grounds, and the keweenaw research facility. I can unequivocally report that winter tires are flatly superior to summer tires, all season tires, all terrain tires, and mud tires when operating in the snow and ice. In fact, it's not even a close comparison. This does exclude chains and studs, which are a huge advantage on ice... I would positively prefer a FWD car with winter tires, over a 4x4 with anything other than winter tires - with the exception of snow deep enough the FWD car didn't have enough ground clearance. It'd be a tossup between a RWD vehicle with winter tires vs a 4x4 with something other than... |
#17
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Tom '21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI My original songs |
#18
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I understand the potential issues, but I’ve driven AWD Subies or Honda’s in Fargo—snow/ice from November to March/April—since 2001....I wouldn’t drive anything else...
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#19
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I'm assuming he meant a really pickup truck, not just a "I gotta take the trash out on Saturday" kind of truck. |
#20
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Technology has come a long, long way.
It used to be you needed a manual transmission to get the best performance. Then a modified automatic transmission (stall and shift kit) could finally perform better than a manual. Now, run-of-the-mill stock automatic transmissions can perform better than a manual transmissions. Same thing with the drivetrain. Back in the day, you had to have locking hubs, and synchronous drive axles because that's all there was. Now, with AWD, symmetrical AWD, X-drive, etc. there is so much technology that I can't see any benefit of old-fashioned 4WD.
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Fazool "The wand chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter" Taylor GC7, GA3-12, SB2-C, SB2-Cp...... Ibanez AVC-11MHx , AC-240 |
#21
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If you loved your AWD Honda, just get another one. |
#22
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We also agree, I almost all ways prefer to dive our AWD Mini Countryman to my 4X4 Dodge 2500 even with both having studded winter tires But, if we are going to measure "credentials" I will bid my practical winter road experience against "test track" driving any time . With multi hundreds of thousands of miles of driving the all over Intermountain Mountain West all winter long for 30 years. With everything from mountain passes with miles and miles of varying 6% to up to 16% grades ( that BTW sometimes you can't walk on without slipping on glaze or ice ) . To buffeting cross wind situations of 40 to 60 mph at notorious wintertime whiteout driving nightmare locations, such as Elk Mountain on I-80 or Point of the Mountain on I-15 and numerous others, as well as unnamed canyons with vortex and wind shear features . When this is what your driveway looks like December to May every winter, with a 47 mile commute to town, from 8000 ft down 6000 ft.and back up, in the Rockies, you had better learn a few things about driving on snow and ice.. Trust me on this rutted and irregular grooved, rock hard packed glazed road, un-studded "winter tires " even on this flat section, are only marginally (if at all) "superior " to well sipe'd All Season, and neither is " worth frozen spit" when you try to go over those mountains and this is on a clear day !
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 Last edited by KevWind; 05-07-2018 at 08:28 AM. |
#23
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Lots of great information. Here in Iowa we have winters that I'd put up against anyone's. Driving conditions can very in extreme ways in a twenty minute drive. You can start out in a foot of snow or better with an ice base. Hit the main road that's 100% ice packed. Go to dry concrete to icy patches. Along with having to go through plowed build up snow and ice mounds. Since I love Honda AWD and after having real good experiences with it and all weather tires. I think I may get a Honda Pilot. I am just not hearing anything real great about 4x2 and 4x4 trucks concerning normal everyday winter driving.
One item I'm surprised no one has brought up is the on/off switch to the on board computer for traction. There are times when you are better off turning it off and going old school.
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#24
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4 new vehicles ago: Nissan Pathfinder 4x4 first gen. Had to get out and manually lock/unlock the front hubs (PITA). Never got stuck.
3 new vehicles ago: Nissan Frontier 2WD. Had a few times where I could not make it up a slow grade, steeper grade or no grade but with packed ice on the road. Not fun, and I used to put 200 lbs of dried concrete/concrete blocks in the right corner of the bed. 2 new vehicles ago; Nissan Frontier 4x4, turn a knob to engage low or high 4WD. Never got stuck. Do I NEED a truck? The answer really was 'no'. There sure were times when it was convenient - camping, just throw everything in the back, no worry about fitting everything in. Run a load of brush/branches to he landfill, easy. Until my town clamped down on it, loads of autumn leaves to the landfill was a breeze- I could fill the back of truck (with cap) in 15 minutes, do 3-4 loads on a Saturday morning before it got busy. Pickup a few 8' 2x4s - have to put the tailgate down or cap truck up, but still easy. Newest vehicle: Subaru Outback, AWD. Didn't get too much snow driving this winter, but enough that it felt secure all the time. 8' 2x4s fit, barely, inside it. No more brush runs to he landfill, though. I've got a factory hitch and can rent a uhaul trailer if I need to do that kind of work.
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Mike My music: https://mikebirchmusic.bandcamp.com 2020 Taylor 324ceBE 2017 Taylor 114ce-N 2012 Taylor 310ce 2011 Fender CD140SCE Ibanez 12 string a/e 73(?) Epiphone 6830E 6 string 72 Fender Telecaster Epiphone Dot Studio Epiphone LP Jr Chinese Strat clone Kala baritone ukulele Seagull 'Merlin' Washburn Mandolin Luna 'tatoo' a/e ukulele antique banjolin Squire J bass |
#25
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I greatly prefer to daily drive a car, rather than a truck. I like the lower stance, the agility, the handling, the improved MPG, the ride...
But sometimes you need a truck! I've found a 5x8 utility trailer allows me to own a car, yet haul homeowner-type loads of stuff with a car. Obviously if you have *real* hauling needs, a passenger car isn't going to cut it, but for bringing home mulch, bags of concrete, fetching used furniture from craigslist, etc, the trailer is a great solution for me. |
#26
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Sounds like the right tools for the right job.
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#27
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Knowing how to drive in the snow doesn't hurt either. Great call. Ours is excellent in the snow as long as it's plowed. For the road to our cabin, the Silverado is the vehicle of need. |
#28
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A writer I like, John Gierach, once wrote that the only advantage of 4 wheel drive is that you tend to get stuck in more scenic places.
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#29
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I think many underestimate the true all weather or dedicated snow tires. I've had them from 3 different makers now. All have been super and especially with really slick and icy stuff.
For a complete knowing this, we have 3 nearly identical Outback cars between a sibling, mother in law and me. Two good friends and other associates have them. They are good no matter what tires you choose. My mother in law has same as original all season tires. One friend alway has Nokians. My brother had different Contis, and then got the snow rated all weather tires I have. It's not scientific measurement but if you drive the same car in with the tire differences you really feel it. The dedicated winter tires and newer breed of all weather tires are no doubt superior when it's icy and hard packed snow.
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#30
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HHP, I like that quote of JG. In the old days snow tires and 100# in the trunk and we went almost anywhere we wanted. Places where normal all season tires fail. Back then it was normal to change tires with the seasons. These days the trend is all season tires. They are not created equal. Make sure to check the different grades of all season. The trade off is traction versus mileage/quiet ride. Weigh the options and find what works for you.
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