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  #1  
Old 08-24-2019, 06:39 PM
Kenny202 Kenny202 is offline
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Default Yamaha CPX900 very high action

I bought a second hand CPX 900 this week and so far a bit perplexed and unable to find much information on them. The guitar itself beautiful, in good condition and sounds amazing amplified. I live in a remote area of Thailand so I bought it on line sight unseen which in hindsight not a good idea. I thought I was pretty safe as I have had a few early APX guitars (Japanese) and they were remarkable.

My biggest concern the action seems very high. In this respect I may not be the best judge because I normally play electrics and like a LOW action. I have done everything I possibly can to reduce the action. The area around the bridge (top of the guitar) seems raised slightly. Not noticeably to the eye bulging but put a straight edge across the top of guitar, behind the bridge and it is noticeable. It's not raised and tilted forward as some guitars with broken braces etc get) I took it to a local Luthier (He''s been trained but jury out on his capabilities) and he says the Yamaha CPX are meant to be raised slightly across the bridge and normally have a very high action. He checked for cracked braces etc and said all was good. Open chords are comfortable but you wouldn't be doing any lead work up past the 12th fret. I have set up at least a hundred guitars, mainly electrics and have a pretty good feel for truss rod adjustment etc. I have shaved some off the saddle. The nut is as low as it can be. Truss rod straight. It isn't too bad now with 2.5mm between the bottom of the bottom E string and the 12th fret. I have a set of 11-55 strings on it. Open chords are pleasant but bar chords and lead further up the neck hard work. I did have a set of 10 strings on it but not a lot of difference.

I liked the APX series because I normally play amplified and while they had a pretty poor acoustic sound they seemed to be set up for amplified live work and sounded great, played easy. I figured the CPX would be the same. I am only starting to learn that it appears the more expensive the guitar the higher the action usually is. Its all about getting a better acoustic sound which isn't as important to me as playability. Is this right? I have always felt higher end acoustics I have played had a very high action.

I guess the long and the short of this, and a subjective question as you may like a high action but has anyone owned or own one of these and did you notice the action on your CPX was very high?

I could lower the saddle a tiny bit more but it will be very close to the top of the bridge surface.

Is 2.5mm at the 12th fret high? (little chance of lowering further)

String tension seems very tight too. I know this is normally governed by scale length but I imagine the CPX is a standard scale. Why is it some guitars you pick up strings feel like butter in your fingers and others feel tight and hard to pull down on the strings? Do different brand strings on an acoustic feel tight?

If the guitar structurally is ok is it feasible to have a Luthier remove and shave some off the bottom of the ebony bridge? I haven't checked but I assume there is enough meat there.

Be very interested to hear from other players.

I have a photo of the straight edge across the back of the bridge on top of the guitar but can not attach photo? Only a small arch, with a straight edge across top of guitar be enough to get a quarter (coin) under each side at the edge of the guitar


Last edited by Kerbie; 08-25-2019 at 12:41 PM. Reason: Fixed photo
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:51 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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My guess is the nut slots could go way down, so low you wouldn’t think it would be possible without fret buzz but it is so. Yamaha’s especially require nut adjustment and cleaning to play smoothly. 2.5mm at the twelfth fret sounds low to me.
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Old 08-24-2019, 10:24 PM
Kenny202 Kenny202 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
My guess is the nut slots could go way down, so low you wouldn’t think it would be possible without fret buzz but it is so. Yamaha’s especially require nut adjustment and cleaning to play smoothly. 2.5mm at the twelfth fret sounds low to me.
No, definitely no room to lower nut anymore. The action that end is extremely low and in fact when I take the saddle down as far as I can before it buzzes it buzzes out on the first 2 frets. Be very lucky to fit a couple of sheets of paper under the bottom E string and first fret.

With the action near the nut so low and rising up to 2.5mm at the 12th fret in my mind there would only be 2 ways to correct it. A neck reset (impossible where I am and probably cost prohibitive) or saddle / bridge height lower. The saddle itself is as low as I can take it, probably a bit too low with only 1mm or so above the surface of the bridge wood.

I guess my starting point really needs to be if someone can tell me if the area around their bridge on their CPX 900 is slightly raised or not. If this is normal I will know I need to come up with a different solution. Like I said not even really noticeable to the eye, but with a straight edge behind the bridge across the top of the guitar there is about 3mm either side. I tried to post a photo, added the URL but doesn't seem to be visible?

I am very interested to know if shaving 1mm or so off the bottom of the ebony bridge is possible or recommended or not a good idea? It seems like the easiest fix albeit will be difficult getting the thing off. Even better providing I have enough depth in the slot what about shaving 1mm or so off the top of the bridge? No need to remove the bridge then

Last edited by Kenny202; 08-24-2019 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:35 PM
Caddy Caddy is offline
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Nearly all acoustics are designed and made with somewhat of an arch in the top, even though they are called flat top guitars. 2.5 mm seems like low action to me. Not much higher than my electrics.
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:42 PM
Kerbie Kerbie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny202 View Post
I tried to post a photo, added the URL but doesn't seem to be visible?
Photo fixed.
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  #6  
Old 08-25-2019, 08:49 PM
Johnny_Boy Johnny_Boy is offline
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My best playing acoustic guitar has 2mm action at 14th fret (not 12th fret), but you will not be able to get this kind of action unless you go PLEK or some serious time put on by an expert setup person. 2.5mm is pretty normal for well setup acoustic guitar.

If you shave down the bridge and the saddle you are changing the angle of the string break on the saddle which changes the downward pressure quite a bit which will change the sound drastically. So I would be careful before going this route as it will be not easily reversible.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:49 PM
Kenny202 Kenny202 is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Boy View Post
My best playing acoustic guitar has 2mm action at 14th fret (not 12th fret), but you will not be able to get this kind of action unless you go PLEK or some serious time put on by an expert setup person. 2.5mm is pretty normal for well setup acoustic guitar.

If you shave down the bridge and the saddle you are changing the angle of the string break on the saddle which changes the downward pressure quite a bit which will change the sound drastically. So I would be careful before going this route as it will be not easily reversible.
Yes I understand a little more about saddles and break angles now. Not really rocket science once explained. The saddle does a lot more than just hold the strings above the bridge. It works like a lever in the slot with the vibration of the strings to vibrate the top and increase the sound and clarity. I did take the saddle right down and the guitar sound was dead. I got a new saddle started again and it's now about 2mm above the bridge. I didn't understand any of this until a couple of days ago I started reading up.

2.5mm probably is about normal set up height for an acoustic from what I read, and yes I could probably get used to it but I feel there should still be room to lower it further or there is something wrong with the guitar, and I will never feel comfortable with that unfortunately. I do love the feel, finish and sound of the guitar though. I will persevere a little longer. Maybe try lighter strings again and some adjustment to the truss rod.
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Old 08-26-2019, 03:11 AM
AndrewG AndrewG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny202 View Post
Yes I understand a little more about saddles and break angles now. Not really rocket science once explained. The saddle does a lot more than just hold the strings above the bridge. It works like a lever in the slot with the vibration of the strings to vibrate the top and increase the sound and clarity. I did take the saddle right down and the guitar sound was dead. I got a new saddle started again and it's now about 2mm above the bridge. I didn't understand any of this until a couple of days ago I started reading up.

2.5mm probably is about normal set up height for an acoustic from what I read, and yes I could probably get used to it but I feel there should still be room to lower it further or there is something wrong with the guitar, and I will never feel comfortable with that unfortunately. I do love the feel, finish and sound of the guitar though. I will persevere a little longer. Maybe try lighter strings again and some adjustment to the truss rod.
Yes, the change from a typical electric with a low action to an acoustic can be challenging-until you get accustomed to it. Put your electric(s) away for a while and work on your hand strength and build those calluses; acoustics with very low actions seldom sound their best, and I always consider electrics and acoustics as distant relations, requiring different approaches and playing technique.
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  #9  
Old 08-26-2019, 03:29 AM
nickv6 nickv6 is offline
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Only way to get a low action on an acoustic and retain tone is to buy a Lowden.
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