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  #31  
Old 07-17-2018, 12:38 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Originally Posted by richard1 View Post
And that is just between two options, Glenn. Guilty or not guilty. It's easy to understand how paralysis of cognition would render some individuals with seemingly insurmountable doubt.
Hi Richard,

Yes, for some people, I know that making decisions is very difficult. The alternative is that some people are decisive. That doesn't mean that those who are decisive make good decisions in all cases, of course. For myself, the feelings of indecisiveness are so incredibly uncomfortable that I have to make a decision. Then I monitor the results to see whether that decision was a good one or not. Then assuming I can, I change if I have to.

I can see where choice for some people is bad. That's why some people from a psychological standpoint prefer to be ruled by a strongman or dictator. Some people prefer to be told what to do and crave authoritarian leadership. That way there are fewer choices in life.

- Glenn
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  #32  
Old 07-17-2018, 12:53 PM
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if we have tons of choices, then educating yourself to make the best decision is paramount. if people can't take the time to educate themselves, then they may not make the best choice for themselves.

take responsibility for your education and the choices you make. i can point to a particular huge concept we have as a subject of this matter. but, i won't as this will be edited or deleted.

i don't know. that endpin i bought is not as mahogany looking as i thought it was. i don't know whether to buy the V class or wait for the M class. i'm disappointed and paralyzed.

play music!
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  #33  
Old 07-17-2018, 01:01 PM
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So its better to be miserable, content in the knowledge that everyone is miserable, than to be able to take action to end your misery?

When I run into people who get consumed over crap like this, I tell them that I find not giving a rat's rear works every time its tried.
No. You are again confusing the points.

In the first example, they have no option to end their misery. Let's stick with the example of pants, again.

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So its better to be miserable, content in the knowledge that everyone is miserable, than to be able to take action to end your misery?....
There is only one pair of pants. They have no way to take action to end their misery. There is no alternative. There is no choice, no action no change to be made. They have one pair of pants that are miserable to wear and thats all there is.

This has nothing to do with being content that others are miserable., The psychological discussion is about how the person experiences this. There is no choice so they are miserable (bad fitting jeans) but they are psychologically content because they didn't make a "wrong" choice.


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...When I run into people who get consumed over crap like this, I tell them that I find not giving a rat's rear works every time its tried.
That's exactly the point.

This argument is not at all about getting better pants. It's about how much you give a rat's rear about it.

If you have only one pair of pants, you can "not give a rat's rear" one time and you are content.

If you had to turn down 99 other pairs of pants (as the argument suggests), then you have to "not give a rat's rear" ninety-nine times to stop caring about all the pants you could have had but missed out on.
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  #34  
Old 07-17-2018, 01:04 PM
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By the way, this is more just mental gymnastics and interesting discourse on psychology of caring.

I think the truth is not so black or white.

I also think that HHP has a point and people can take some responsibility for being content with what they have even if there are way too many choices.

I'm not trying to invalidate that - I'm just having an interesting debate
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  #35  
Old 07-17-2018, 01:52 PM
seannx seannx is offline
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Having only one possible choice, or a few, or 6-10, or many (like in today’s guitar market) differ in their effects on people.
Here's an example from one of my businesses, that sells natural minerals and crystals.
What we discovered is that once the amount of a particular type on display exceeded 6-8, people had a very hard time making a choice. Some customers, uncertain and thinking that they might find a better one, would ask to see back stock. We’d bring out a box from our stock with lots of pieces, and one of two things would happen. Either they would go into overload and not even get one, or buy the one they had originally liked best of the ones on display. So after observing this pattern, we set a new policy of not bringing out back stock, unless the person was a quantity or wholesale buyer.
The result was we had customers satisfied with their choices. Interestingly, most customers would get the first one they were attracted to anyway.
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  #36  
Old 07-17-2018, 01:54 PM
Big*Al Big*Al is offline
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Well, few weeks ago I bought 2 new pairs of pants. Knew what I wanted, bought them, and I haven't thought about them or the ones I rejected since. I mean, who gets angst or suffers self-doubt over buying pants?
Well . . . I haven't been able to find the jeans I like for decades. I still want the old fashioned unwashed, dark blue, stiff as stove pipes jeans I grew up with. Now all I can buy are pre-conditioned (artificially aged) ones. It's like looking for a new guitar only to find out that the only guitars available anywhere are distressed "relic" models. Even the dark blue jeans seem half worn out before I buy them. They are soft and comfortable but whatever process they use to artificially soften them reduces their useful life.

Sooo . . . I have more choices in jeans than ever . . . except for the ones I like best. All the extra choices won't make me happier if the style I want is no longer available. I mean, it's not like I'm seriously stressing over it or anything. I'll get by just fine with whatever I can find in the store. I just miss being able to buy actual "brand new" blue jeans.

. . . . And . . . . I have come to the conclusion that the biggest influence on having GAS comes from participating in online guitar forums.
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  #37  
Old 07-17-2018, 01:59 PM
phcorrigan phcorrigan is offline
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Here's an example from one of my businesses, that sells natural minerals and crystals.
There is a very effective marketing strategy that works like this: If you have a product to sell, offer three different models at three different price points. The middle one is the one you really want to sell, and guess what? That's what most people will buy and never look back.
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  #38  
Old 07-17-2018, 02:15 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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As the retired chief engineer from a medium sized manufacturing company, I have had a lot of exposure to sales people, both at higher levels and at the ground level. The sales people have what they have called the KISS system -- "Keep It Simple, Stupid." Good sales people have generally recognized that too much choice paralyzes potential buyers.

As others have noted, including the speaker in that TED video, there is an optimal choice level. A certain amount of choice can be liberating, too much choice can be paralyzing.

Part of the reason we have a lot of choice is that a lot of people (that is, companies) are trying to make a living and are therefore providing product offerings in the hopes of attracting buyers. It's not some kind of conspiracy to make people unhappy.

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  #39  
Old 07-17-2018, 02:18 PM
richard1 richard1 is offline
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There is a very effective marketing strategy that works like this: If you have a product to sell, offer three different models at three different price points. The middle one is the one you really want to sell, and guess what? That's what most people will buy and never look back.
Very interesting, and probably true, I would likely go for the middle one too.

Actually it's an established fact in my house that I am a sucker for marketing. I have JML products, all around the house. I never seem to learn, but some of those products are pretty good, believe it or not.
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  #40  
Old 07-17-2018, 02:30 PM
seannx seannx is offline
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Originally Posted by phcorrigan View Post
There is a very effective marketing strategy that works like this: If you have a product to sell, offer three different models at three different price points. The middle one is the one you really want to sell, and guess what? That's what most people will buy and never look back.
What we found critical for our industry was a variety of sizes - small through large, and and we had customers for all. That was due to the nature and variety of the natural material, budget of the shopper, and intent. The small pieces were about 30% of an average day's gross, and had the highest margin.
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  #41  
Old 07-17-2018, 03:41 PM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Originally Posted by Big*Al View Post
Well . . . I haven't been able to find the jeans I like for decades. I still want the old fashioned unwashed, dark blue, stiff as stove pipes jeans I grew up with. Now all I can buy are pre-conditioned (artificially aged) ones. It's like looking for a new guitar only to find out that the only guitars available anywhere are distressed "relic" models. Even the dark blue jeans seem half worn out before I buy them. They are soft and comfortable but whatever process they use to artificially soften them reduces their useful life.

Sooo . . . I have more choices in jeans than ever . . . except for the ones I like best. All the extra choices won't make me happier if the style I want is no longer available. I mean, it's not like I'm seriously stressing over it or anything. I'll get by just fine with whatever I can find in the store. I just miss being able to buy actual "brand new" blue jeans.

. . . . And . . . . I have come to the conclusion that the biggest influence on having GAS comes from participating in online guitar forums.
Humm I just bought some "Levi 501 Shrink to Fit" about a week ago (admittedly not as heavy of cotton cloth as 40 years ago) but still the old stand by
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  #42  
Old 07-17-2018, 03:50 PM
HHP HHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennwillow View Post
As the retired chief engineer from a medium sized manufacturing company, I have had a lot of exposure to sales people, both at higher levels and at the ground level. The sales people have what they have called the KISS system -- "Keep It Simple, Stupid." Good sales people have generally recognized that too much choice paralyzes potential buyers.

As others have noted, including the speaker in that TED video, there is an optimal choice level. A certain amount of choice can be liberating, too much choice can be paralyzing.

Part of the reason we have a lot of choice is that a lot of people (that is, companies) are trying to make a living and are therefore providing product offerings in the hopes of attracting buyers. It's not some kind of conspiracy to make people unhappy.

- Glenn
That might be a little misleading. I just retired from a multi-national where I was handling corporate sales. The expectation from these customers is that a vendor know their needs well enough so that when you brought them a proposal for new technology, you had already vetted the alternatives.

If you go in and offer them Choice A, B, and C, they'll think you a boob and kick you out.
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  #43  
Old 07-17-2018, 04:02 PM
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Basalt Beach Basalt Beach is offline
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Originally Posted by Glennwillow View Post
As others have noted, including the speaker in that TED video, there is an optimal choice level. A certain amount of choice can be liberating, too much choice can be paralyzing.
very true

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Originally Posted by HHP View Post
That might be a little misleading. I just retired from a multi-national where I was handling corporate sales. The expectation from these customers is that a vendor know their needs well enough so that when you brought them a proposal for new technology, you had already vetted the alternatives.

If you go in and offer them Choice A, B, and C, they'll think you a boob and kick you out.
Consultative selling should lead you to know whether a customer should be offered one choice or several. The best national account managers know their accounts and when a single solution should be presented or several solutions offered.
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  #44  
Old 07-17-2018, 04:12 PM
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You can have any color you want as long as it's black. - Henry Ford

I never had a bevy of guitars. I had three at any given time and two were on their way out. I never got into the ownership of every tone my imagination duped my wallet into buying. I'd go shopping for tone but when I did it was with the single intent of replacing what I had if what I found was better. The last time I did that was 2007. I have one guitar at the moment and can honestly say it does everything I need it to do.
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  #45  
Old 07-17-2018, 04:53 PM
Goodallboy Goodallboy is offline
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Originally Posted by HHP View Post
That might be a little misleading. I just retired from a multi-national where I was handling corporate sales. The expectation from these customers is that a vendor know their needs well enough so that when you brought them a proposal for new technology, you had already vetted the alternatives.

If you go in and offer them Choice A, B, and C, they'll think you a boob and kick you out.
You describe a rookie's usual methodology of offering too many choices. This usually leads to him not progressing past the rookie stage, but into advanced failure.
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