A thought on tone (and other things) when you're just starting out

[devellis]

I was considering how often we recommend just buying the guitar within your budget that sounds best and it got me thinking about when I first started out.

I hated getting that advice when I first started playing. The reason was, I couldn't really say what sounded best. They all pretty much sounded like, well, guitars. Yes, I could spot an out-and-out dog. But short of that, I heard differences but couldn't really evaluate them as better or worse.

Adding to the frustration was the fact that I understood that my lack of a discriminating ear was the result of not having played for very long or having tried very many guitars. I had a completely uncultivated ear at that point. That meant that I eventually would hear differences. Which increased the pressure not to buy the wrong guitar. Which made it even more frustrating when people wouldn't help me decide what the right guitar was.

Of course, I now understand the futility of expecting someone else to tell me what guitar would eventually be right for me, especially when I hadn't enough skill or exposure even to know what sort of stuff I'd ultimately want to be playing. I kind of understood that even back then but I just wasn't sure how to get around that dilemma.

I suspect I'm not the only person who faced that dilemma and I bet there are people who come here looking for advice and guys (and gals) like me tell them what I was told. And I bet many of them feel the same frustration I did.

So, maybe, those of us who've played for a while can offer some insights to those folks besides the ever-so-true dictum to buy what sounds good to you.

One observation I'll offer is that it may not matter as much as you think. That whatever you buy, if you continue to play, you may find yourself wanting something a bit different at some point. That doesn't mean a bad first choice but just, more often than not, that your tastes have changed (and probably your pocketbook, too).

Another observation that I make a lot is that if sound is ultimately what you think will be most important, then don't spend your limited money on bling. Inlay, tons of binding, sunbursts, gold-plated hardware, etc., cost money that isn't available for the builder to spend on stuff that will influence tone. But honestly, if the guitar of your dreams is all about a certain look and that's the main thing you're after, who am I to judge? Go for it. Just don't go for it unless you're sure that you're willing to run the risk of compromising a bit on tone or playability.

And speaking of playability, that's really, really important. And, again, it's really hard to determine when you're brand new to guitar and every chord on every guitar is painful. One possibility here (and another oft-repeated bit of advice) is to save enough for a good setup when you buy a guitar.

Well, I don't want to repeat any more chestnuts of advice here but I'd invite people who are so inclined to comment on the topic in general. If you're brand new to guitar, what answers to what questions frustrate you? If you're a more seasoned player, what bits of advice do you think are most important as a player decides on what to buy? And how can that advice be made more useful or meaningful?

Just some random thoughts on a Tuesday afternoon but I'd invite others to join in. I'm curious to see what we come up with. And, who knows, maybe we'll teach each other something new.

[1neeto]

I think playability is more important than tone. I have a guitar that sounds beautiful, but I can’t come to terms with its V profile neck, so I end up playing the not as nice sounding but much easier to play laminated guitar. Nothing will keep you from playing more than a guitar that doesn’t cooperate with your hands.

[merlin666]

I have played for a long time, and still hear more about HOW well someone plays than about the characteristics of the instrument. A clumsy brute can not be helped with a great guitar, and an accomplished player will be able to make the worst clunker sing. So yeah for the beginner a basic and affordable instrument will be best as long as it's well built, and what's really important is a good setup to maximize the playability.

[HHP]

When I started, I was always looking for that next step up guitar. Later in life, I've come to find that the small stuff matters. You can make more headway trying strings and picks than searching for another guitar.

Guitar upgrades tend to be incremental gains while finding the right pick or strings can be both transformational and far less costly. When you do upgrade, the knowledge of the small stuff goes with you and makes the expensive upgrades more valuable.

[zmf]

Good topic, Bob.

I haven't learned too many things about selecting a guitar with the tone you like, but one I've noticed that can make or break how you will eventually feel about the guitar is the tone of the 1st and 2nd strings -- the unwound strings. You can work around a number of issues to dial in the tone you want on strings 3-6, but you can't do much with the unwound strings.

I like trebles that are at least a little fat/thick-- not thin and twangy. So I focus on the treble strings. If the guitar company says anything heavier than lights voids the warranty, you're limited in what you can do. If not, try mediums on the trebles. If it doesn't help, what's left?

[Toby Walker]

Great topic Bob.

When I first started I had very limited funds and had to trust the salesman at the local music store to guide me to an affordable guitar that felt right in my hands and, to my limited experience, sounded good. That model was a Ventura Hummingbird copy of the Gibson, and for several years served me well. It stood up to the rigors of my hitch-hiking across the country a few times, before I knew anything about humidity or temperature differences, which was pretty amazing.

Looking back, it had to have been a good playing instrument, because I learned how to fingerpick and play up and down the neck with it. With the usual practice, I was able to master quite a few intricate pieces, including a bunch of Scott Joplin rags.

Later on I sold it only because I wanted the same style jumbo model that I saw a bluegrass player using. That was a Takamine, which back in the late 70's was just coming into their own. It sounded good to me and looked great. I used that guitar on the road for a close to 20 years before buying my first Martin 000-16.

I chose the Martin because - well, I always wanted one - but more so because it worked better for me as by that time I was playing nothing but fingerstyle. I suppose the body shape was the ticket, at least for me.

So looking back, I suppose that I was lucky in choosing guitars that not only were functional, but sounded pretty darn good.

[HodgdonExtreme]

Beginners should ignore tone and buy based on playabilty. But how can you judge playability when you can't play yet??

You need to either buy any cheapie guitar and learn to play a bit - or enlist the help of someone you can trust (not a typical sales person). Another option is to stick with a brand with a huge reputation for playability. Taylor comes to mind, here - though they are certainly not the only game in town.

Beginners ought not get wrapped up in choosing "the one" for their first guitar. Get something decent and get started. Then, never miss an opportunity to try out other guitars. You'll learn pretty quick what you like and don't like.

Lastly: Whatever they buy needs a visit with a guitar technician for a set up as soon as possible.

[backdoc]

Originally Posted by 1neeto

I think playability is more important than tone. I have a guitar that sounds beautiful, but I can’t come to terms with its V profile neck, so I end up playing the not as nice sounding but much easier to play laminated guitar. Nothing will keep you from playing more than a guitar that doesn’t cooperate with your hands.

The good thing is, today’s inexpensive guitars from Yamaha, Ibanez and others are sooooo much better in terms of playability compared to the crap I started with 50 years ago, its not hard to find a good starter.

[musicman1951]

I would not bring up tone in a guitar purchase for a beginner. Find a guitar playing friend who is willing to make a trip to the local music store and by the cheapest guitar that is comfortable to play.

Tone is a long, expensive road that means almost nothing until you can make some pretty nice music. Lessons would be a better investment than a better guitar.

[1neeto]

Originally Posted by backdoc

The good thing is, today’s inexpensive guitars from Yamaha, Ibanez and others are sooooo much better in terms of playability compared to the crap I started with 50 years ago, its not hard to find a good starter.

Nope. My starter guitar is a $270 (HSC included!) 2011 Fender acoustic-electric. Very easy to play, and doesn’t sound too bad.

[vindibona1]

Great topic, Bob.

You're right, playability trumps everything when just starting out. Learning to listen deeply is something that players need to develop. Even us experienced players often overlook the obvious- our technique and what we hear (or don't hear) in our heads.

It's a journey, for sure. Thanks for sharing.

[numb fingertips]

From a begginers perspective, I very much agree with what you are saying. At first most guitars sounded pretty much the same to me. As I started learning, I liked the way rosewood backed guitars sounded. I think this might be due to the piano like sound when you are strumming slowly. I thought that mahogany back guitars, sounded like, as some on the forum have put it, like they had a towel in the sound hole. As I've spent more time practicing, I've come to appreciate mahogany backed guitars and all mahogany guitars, especially in the hands of someone that knows what they are doing. I've also noticed with some rosewood backed guitars, when strummed fast, the notes kind of run into each other?(not sure if I'm explaining it correctly) I will also say that I've gone through a lot of inexpensive guitars. I was curious and wanted to try different things. I've only bought used so didn't lose much money when I sold. Having gone through so many guitars made me comfortable with different spacing. My hands adjusted. Also found out that the shape of the neck for me, made a bigger impact on comfort. So when starting out, a comfortable guitar might be the best thing. Preferences in sound will most likely change.

[MUSICAL HOBO]

Playing guitars is a lot like drinking wine. When I first started drinking wine it was while in the Marine Corps and usually at the end of the month when funds were low, Ripple and re fried beans would get us through till pay day. later in life I found I liked to cook and started pairing wine with dishes I would cook, mostly reds for Italian pastas and red meats and white for fish and lighter meats. It was a long time before I discovered all the other variations that were available.
Playing guitar is a life long education that has no short cuts. I'll be seventy five this month and started this journey in 1975. during that time my tastes have changed as my education has increased. My education has tought me a few simple rules.
Only you know the sound that's right for you.
Do lots of research on the guitar you think you like.
Musical instruments are not about looks, it's about sound, close your eyes and open your ears
ALWAYS PLAY A GUITAR BEFORE YOU BUY IT.
And never let other people influence you with their brand snobbery.
Always have a new guitar set up by a good luthier.
Experiment with different string to find out which strings sound best on your guitar.
AND ABOVE ALL, HAVE FUN!!!

[peteathome]

This is a great thread and one that I wish would have been available when I was first trolling this site looking for a "starter" guitar.

I agree with whats been said here. I didn't even know what tone was when I was starting. I'm still a bad player, but I am now coming to understand that for me anyway, fit is far more important than tone.

If someone were to ask, I'd advise finding a guitar that feels good when you are sitting with it, when you are fingering chords and when you are strumming.

After taking the (very good) advice that I got here, I bought a dreadnought shape guitar as my first guitar. While it sounded OK to me, I didn't appreciate what an impact the nut width and body style would have. Now that I've had a chance to try lots of other guitars, I have learned that the large body shape of the dread just doesn't work for me.

I see that even my guitar idol Neil Young is now playing a smaller body guitar!

[ataylor]

This thread reminded me of the guitar I learned on: it was my mom’s classical guitar. It wasn’t anything fancy — it was an inexpensive Hohner-branded model that, by the time I was interested in it, was missing a couple of its plastic tuning keys and one or two strings.

Not knowing anything about guitar other than the fact I was interested in learning how to play one, I went to a music store — probably one of those awful ones in a shopping mall — and purchased a set of strings. Steel strings. I didn’t know any better. Somehow my dad helped me string the guitar up, and off I was, learning some basic chord shapes from a book.

I had no clue I was setting myself up for failure with this thing — it was pretty much a beginner’s nightmare. It was a flat, wide fretboard and the strings were what seemed like an inch above it. Tuning the thing was a beast, and it never stayed in tune for long. I probably ruined that guitar with the string tension.

But you know what? I loved to play it. Didn’t matter that I had no chance of playing James Taylor on that guitar given my inexperience and the physics of the thing working against me. I moved on to something easier. So when I managed to string together the chords to “Wonderwall,” I sounded enough like the real thing to feel encouraged, and I kept going.

Looking back, that old steel-string-strung classical hand-me-down was kind of like the guitar equivalent of Rocky training in Russia to beat Ivan Drago in the fourth installment of that franchise. After learning on that thing, I was ready for anything. So 8-12 months later, when my parents let me pick out a guitar that would be mine (an all-laminate Art & Lutherie dreadnought I still own), the thing practically played itself.

I will say that once I got started on the right track with that guitar, the playability was a more important factor than nuance in tone. The shop was key in this part of the equation, as they did free setups and adjustments on the instrument both at and after purchase. They taught me how to change strings and tune the guitar. I might not have received that kind of attention from a Guitar Center or shopping mall chain.

But when it’s all said and done, it’s all about how much the beginner wants it. A number of my friends bought the very same guitar I did and started out around the same time, some having the nicer guitar while I was still playing the beastly steel-strung classical. But I quickly became a better player, not just because of natural talent, but because I loved playing guitar for the music and because I genuinely fell in love with the instrument, not just because the girls thought it was cute.

That said, my wife will tell you my guitar-playing and songwriting didn’t hurt my chances early on in our courtship.