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Old 11-06-2021, 11:59 AM
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KevinH KevinH is offline
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Default Emerald X-7 vs X-20

I'm new to the CF world, and now find myself interested in Emerald guitars. I don't really need the humidity resistance - though it would be nice to have one I could leave about the house year round. And I don't need a travel guitar, because my Little Jane fills that spot well. So my interest is mostly to find something tonally different from my current guitars.

I play finger style and have found 00 bodies to be the sweet spot for comfort and ease of play, although I do have an 0 and an OM. But, still prefer something around a 00. I'm looking at possibly an X-20, or an X-7. Hoping to get a feel for the size of these two guitars I made this comparison to some I already have, or have had:

e.jpg

What struck me first is the small size of the X-7. I know they refer to it as a parlor, but it seems even smaller than a Taylor GS Mini, which I once owned but sold because it was just too cramped. That may have been because of the narrow neck.

Emerald refers to the X-20 as a dreadnaught size, but it looks to me to be closer to an OM. And then there are the ergonomic features of the Emeralds that people talk about that make them more comfortable to play. So maybe they feel smaller than their size suggests?

I'd appreciate comments from any X-20 or X-7 owners about how the apparent size of those guitars compares to 0, 00 or OM size guitars you have. Does an X-20 feel about the same size as an OM, or would you say its between a 00 and OM? Does an X-7 feel more like an 0 than a 00?

TIA
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Old 11-06-2021, 12:12 PM
jdinco jdinco is offline
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I owned both, an X7 and X20, I think you are correct in that the X20 feels like an OM. Maybe even better with the contours. The X7 has a much bigger body than a GS Mini, there's really no comparison between the 2 IMHO. I haven't looked at the specs, just going by feel. The X7 never felt right to me with the bigger body and short neck, many people love the X7, so I'm not sure what my problem was, but I could never bond with it. If i was buying one...I would get the X20. All the Emeralds look like a piece of fine art to me, if that means anything to you. I am not an fingerstyle player. Have you asked if there are any emerald owners near you that would let you try theirs? They seem to be the friendly sort.
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Old 11-06-2021, 01:05 PM
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I've also owned both, although it was the previous version of the X20, with the smaller cutout. I found them both comfortable to hold and play if I was strumming or flat picking. For fingerpicking, IF you like to anchor your picking hand on the bridge (which I often do for palm muting), the X7 can be problematic for that. You can see how close the bridge is to the tail end of the guitar - that puts your hand position (for most normal sized people anyway) well to the left of the bridge, such that moving back to the bridge for anchoring or palm muting is not a natural act. That turned out to be a problem for me with the X7. Tonally, somehow I found the smaller X7 to be a much warmer and deeper sounding guitar than the X20, which was much brighter and not near as much to my taste. I never really bonded with the X20 and sold it after several months. I liked the sound of the X7 a LOT, and kept it the better part of two years, and probably would still have it if I hadn't taken up fingerpicking when I owned it.

-Ray
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Old 11-06-2021, 05:39 PM
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I own an X20 and a previous generation X7. I'm not a Martin guy, but having owned Taylors, I'd make this comparison: the X7 is close in size to the GSmini, but sounds bigger; and more comfortable with the 24" scale (vs 23.5" on the Mini) and a 1 3/4" nut width on the X7 (vs 1 11/16 on the Mini). My X7 replaced the early model GSmini as my "travel guitar," but I still pick up the X7 regularly when we're home.

To my eye, the X20 is closer to Taylor's Grand Auditorium (x14) guitars than the Grand Concert (x12); I find a true dreadnaught shape uncomfortable to hold/play. With the compound curves and bevels on the X20, it is significantly more comfortable to hold/play than my Taylor 814ce. Soundwise, with the same strings on both, I prefer the sound/tone of the X20 over the 814. That said, both are great guitars. I did a "tone test" with each after this last string change, with my wife as a judge (she is not a guitar player) - she, also, preferred the sound/tone of the X20. Anecdotal? Sure. But that makes it a landslide in our home.
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Old 11-06-2021, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdinaz View Post
...All the Emeralds look like a piece of fine art to me, if that means anything to you...
Yeah, appearance is usually down on the list for me, but its really hard to ignore on the Emeralds. Quite stunning. I've spent way too much time browsing through their wood library.

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Originally Posted by raysachs View Post
...For fingerpicking, IF you like to anchor your picking hand on the bridge (which I often do for palm muting), the X7 can be problematic for that. You can see how close the bridge is to the tail end of the guitar - that puts your hand position (for most normal sized people anyway) well to the left of the bridge, such that moving back to the bridge for anchoring or palm muting is not a natural act. That turned out to be a problem for me with the X7....
Thanks Ray. I did notice how they slide the bridge back when changing scale length and hadn't thought about the hand position. Did you have your CEO-7 when you had the X-20? Curious if the X20 felt much bigger.


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Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
...the X7 is close in size to the GSmini, but sounds bigger; and more comfortable with the 24" scale (vs 23.5" on the Mini) and a 1 3/4" nut width on the X7 (vs 1 11/16 on the Mini)...

To my eye, the X20 is closer to Taylor's Grand Auditorium (x14) guitars than the Grand Concert (x12); I find a true dreadnaught shape uncomfortable to hold/play. With the compound curves and bevels on the X20, it is significantly more comfortable to hold/play than my Taylor 814ce...
Good to know. I suspect much of my problem with the Mini was the narrow nut, so an X7 might work. How would you compare the sound of the X7 and the X20? Ray's X7 sounded deeper and warmer. I haven't found any good videos comparing them and most of them seem to have reverb added and undoubtedly some EQ etc. So I don't really trust them since I'd be playing unplugged.
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Old 11-06-2021, 09:36 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Originally Posted by KevinH View Post


Good to know. I suspect much of my problem with the Mini was the narrow nut, so an X7 might work. How would you compare the sound of the X7 and the X20? Ray's X7 sounded deeper and warmer. I haven't found any good videos comparing them and most of them seem to have reverb added and undoubtedly some EQ etc. So I don't really trust them since I'd be playing unplugged.
My experience wouldn't be as helpful in your situation, since my X7 is the previous generation. I compared my X20, X10, and X7 in a video a couple years back, and was surprised that a decibel-meter on my phone showed them closer in volume than what my ears were telling me. Of the 3 Emeralds I have, the X20 is my favorite for tone and punch. Your ears may interpret that differently.

Going back to the Taylor comparison: my X7 is deeper, richer, and louder than my GSmini was. The X20 is more of all that. If you have any concern about the size of the X7 being too small, the X20 would be the way to go.
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Old 11-07-2021, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinH View Post
Thanks Ray. I did notice how they slide the bridge back when changing scale length and hadn't thought about the hand position. Did you have your CEO-7 when you had the X-20? Curious if the X20 felt much bigger.
I sold the X20 way before I bought the CEO-7, but I did have an 000-15M when I first had the X20. The X20 was bigger and felt it, but not by a lot, and I wouldn’t say it was more or less comfortable to play as a result. I also had an 000-15SM for part of the time I had the X7, and also while I was starting to learn fingerstyle and that was what made me realize the thing about the bridge placement on the X7 - my picking hand naturally fell right over the bridge on that guitar (as it has on every 000 I’ve played and on the CEO-7), while it was much farther toward the neck on the X7. In case this data point is relevant to you, I also very briefly (a matter of a few days) had an 00-17A and I had some of the same bridge placement issue with that I did with the X-7 - there’s something about the 12-fret 00 body that puts the bridge farther back on the body that did NOT happen with a 12 or 14 fret 000, or the slope shouldered 14 fret 00 (which is what Martin calls the CEO-7). I did almost all of my fingerstyle playing on the 000-15SM at the time as a result. The CEO-7 is a bit smaller and more comfortable to play than any of the 000’s I’ve owned (including an 000-28EC now), although it’s also louder than any of them. As much as I liked the X7, I liked the CEO-7 more in pretty much every respect.

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Originally Posted by KevinH View Post
Good to know. I suspect much of my problem with the Mini was the narrow nut, so an X7 might work. How would you compare the sound of the X7 and the X20? Ray's X7 sounded deeper and warmer. I haven't found any good videos comparing them and most of them seem to have reverb added and undoubtedly some EQ etc. So I don't really trust them since I'd be playing unplugged.
I’ll chime in here too, since I briefly had the X-20, an OLDER X7 (same as Jim’s), and the newer X7. The difference between the older and newer X7 is pretty vast. The older one is much smaller in every respect other than scale length. It also sounds much smaller to the player, partly because it is, and partly (probably mostly) because of the soundhole location and orientation. The offset soundhole on the X20 and newer X7 (pointing both out and UP) makes a huge difference in perceived volume and tone at the player’s ear. Recordings made out in front of the guitar show all three of them to be very close in actual volume, but to the player, the older X7 sounds MUCH quieter and less full than either of the guitars with the offset sound holes. I liked the sound of the older version of the X7 a little bit more than the X20, but it didn’t sound nearly as full, whereas the newer X7 sounds about the same as the X-20 in volume, but the tone is considerably less bright (or at least was in the case of the samples I had).

FWIW, unlike Jim, I didn’t find the older X7 to be a particularly comfortable guitar - it was just so small that I always felt hunched over it when I played it. The newer X7 was the most comfortable Emerald I played. Which doesn’t tell you anything other than different people perceive the same things very differently so you never know how you’ll perceive something until you try it. For my money and my perceptions, the newer X7 was both more comfortable and better sounding than either the X20 or the older X7. Which is just one guy’s perception, but that’s all you’re gathering here…

Good luck,

-Ray
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Old 11-07-2021, 09:09 AM
mountainmaster mountainmaster is offline
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I have an X20 and an X7 with the current body shapes. They are nylon string guitars, so I am not sure if my comparison fully applies to steel strings.

The X7 is focused in the mid range, as one would expect from a parlor size guitar. The X20 has more bass AND more treble. It also has more complex harmonics.
My X7 sounds very dry and direct. I think this is why it appears to be louder than my X20, although I have not been able to measure this. Both are rather quiet instruments though, even for nylon strings.

Edit: I forgot to mention that my X7 has a 24.9" scale length. The current longer scale option for the X7 is 24.5".
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Old 11-08-2021, 10:56 AM
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I have an an X20 and I owned a previous generation of the X7. Never did bond with the X7…the tone was just not for me…too “shallow” sounding. The X20 fits well, and sounds great (even when I play it).
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:44 AM
BlueStarfish BlueStarfish is offline
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I have a well-loved X20, so can comment on that model. The X20 has the length, lower bout width, depth, and standard-sized scale of a deep-body OM. Because of the bevels, it feels smaller in your hands and lap. So in terms of physical size, dreadnaught is not the right description. It's a very comfy guitar and doesn't feel big at all.

I think the dreadnaught description is more appropriate from a tonal perspective. The X20 has a strong bass register and also nice strong ringing trebles. I'm not a finger style player, but it sounds great flat picked and playing rhythm. The strong bass and trebles are typical characteristics of a dreadnaught. It's not the traditional dry pre-war Martin dreadnaught tone, it's a more modern profile with a tight not a flabby bass and a lot of overtones. It projects well and is plenty loud -- it's actually my loudest guitar. Must be some Celtic magic going on to get that much volume and tone out of a guitar that feels so small in the lap.
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:42 PM
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I have a previous-generation X20 (before it was made even more comfortable with the rib bevel) and a current-generation X7. Both are fantastic guitars. My main guitar prior to acquiring the X20 about 6 years ago was a Larrivee OM, which I still have and play occasionally. Before I cozied up to the X20 I thought the Larrivee was the most comfortable guitar I had played -- a gorgeous sweet-sounding 12-fretter. After spending so much time with the X20 the Larrivee feels like it's all sharp edges and has a huge lower bout. Which is ridiculous, because it's nowhere near that, but the X20 is that comfortable. The comparison to a deep-body OM is dead on -- it's definitely deeper than the Larrivee but feels so much smaller and more comfortable due to the bevels.

The X7 is the most comfortable small guitar I've played and feels more OO size to me than parlor. I'm not a huge fan of the 24-inch scale, though, and would love a 24.9 X7.

Now, with all that said, if I was playing fingerstyle with bare flesh and in the market for carbon fiber, I'd probably go Rainsong. Both Emeralds are rich and lush sounding, but fairly quiet when played with bare fingers unless you really go after it. Both come alive with a pick (which is how I play 95% of the time), the X20 sounding big and full with just enough bass and the X7 sounding sweet and well balanced. Don't get me wrong, both sound fantastic with bare fingers, it's just volume that's an issue. In contrast, notes seem to just leap out of Rainsongs with the lightest touch. In terms of comfort, though, it's Emerald all the way.
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Old 11-16-2021, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by sumokids View Post
...Now, with all that said, if I was playing fingerstyle with bare flesh and in the market for carbon fiber, I'd probably go Rainsong. Both Emeralds are rich and lush sounding, but fairly quiet when played with bare fingers unless you really go after it. Both come alive with a pick (which is how I play 95% of the time), the X20 sounding big and full with just enough bass and the X7 sounding sweet and well balanced. Don't get me wrong, both sound fantastic with bare fingers, it's just volume that's an issue. In contrast, notes seem to just leap out of Rainsongs with the lightest touch. In terms of comfort, though, it's Emerald all the way.
Excellent analysis....
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Old 11-16-2021, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sumokids View Post

Now, with all that said, if I was playing fingerstyle with bare flesh and in the market for carbon fiber, I'd probably go Rainsong. Both Emeralds are rich and lush sounding, but fairly quiet when played with bare fingers unless you really go after it. Both come alive with a pick (which is how I play 95% of the time), the X20 sounding big and full with just enough bass and the X7 sounding sweet and well balanced. Don't get me wrong, both sound fantastic with bare fingers, it's just volume that's an issue. In contrast, notes seem to just leap out of Rainsongs with the lightest touch. In terms of comfort, though, it's Emerald all the way.

Since you have played/owned both I have no reason to doubt your assessment. Having said that, can you elaborate a little more? I did once have a RainSong Shorty and it was very responsive, so I do somewhat understand what you are stating here. I guess I'm surprised that you would go with RainSong as a fingerstyle guitar over a guitar that has a soundhole/monitor that actually faces you? I can't imagine anything being louder than that? Maybe the traditional soundholes project better out front?



Just wondering out of ignorance
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Old 11-17-2021, 05:22 PM
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Since you have played/owned both I have no reason to doubt your assessment. Having said that, can you elaborate a little more? I did once have a RainSong Shorty and it was very responsive, so I do somewhat understand what you are stating here. I guess I'm surprised that you would go with RainSong as a fingerstyle guitar over a guitar that has a soundhole/monitor that actually faces you? I can't imagine anything being louder than that? Maybe the traditional soundholes project better out front?



Just wondering out of ignorance
Sure — The 5 for 6 Rainsongs I’ve played over the years (all OMs and parlors) have all been much more responsive to a light touch than my two Emeralds. So even with Emerald’s sound hole design (which I love, by the way) the Rainsongs have all been louder to the player when played with bare fingers. I have to work harder to get the Emeralds to come out and play whereas Rainsongs seem raring to go. But as mentioned in my previous post, once you throw a pick into the mix the Emeralds come alive and have plenty of volume and presence. It just takes more to get them to their sweet spot.

Of course, this is my experience only, working with a small sample size, so others may have a different tale to tell.
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Old 11-17-2021, 07:00 PM
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So this got my attention. I play finger style so now I'm wondering if this is a general characteristic of Emeralds. I'm not doubting sumokids comparison to Rainsongs, but how would you X20 (or X7) owners rate the responsiveness of your Emerald to your other (even wood) guitars when fingerpicking?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sumokids View Post
...I have to work harder to get the Emeralds to come out and play whereas Rainsongs seem raring to go. But as mentioned in my previous post, once you throw a pick into the mix the Emeralds come alive and have plenty of volume and presence. It just takes more to get them to their sweet spot.

Of course, this is my experience only, working with a small sample size, so others may have a different tale to tell.
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