Have made 2 trips to a highly recommended luthier for setup of my 000-28

[blindboyjimi]

Originally Posted by warfrat73

The complaint here seems to be that you asked the tech to lower the action, he lowered the action, and that that resulted in string buzzing and a perceived decline in volume and tone.

As both string buzz and reduced volume/tonality are side effects of low action, I don't see either of those issues as being inherently problematic.

It seems reasonably likely that the problem is a result of poor communication from one or both parties, and perhaps somewhat unrealistic expectations.

^This is what I think as well. Plus what SillyM said. You started with high enough action to affect intonation. But your playing style may require that. If you have another guitar then measure that one and get your exact numbers. Mine ideal numbers are very low at 0.090”/0.065” and 0.005” relief. The nut is cut at fret height.

[roylor4]

Intonation issues using a capo aren't always indicative of a high saddle either.

High nut slots can be primary culprits, especially in the top 3-4 frets & capo placement can play a role too.

String buzz (in this case) is most likely due to too low nut slots/low saddle/excess back bow, (maybe a combination of all the above).

Personally, this "luthier" would not see my face through his door again. 2 tries is enough.

[morlll]

Originally Posted by warfrat73

The complaint here seems to be that you asked the tech to lower the action, he lowered the action, and that that resulted in string buzzing and a perceived decline in volume and tone.

As both string buzz and reduced volume/tonality are side effects of low action, I don't see either of those issues as being inherently problematic.

It seems reasonably likely that the problem is a result of poor communication from one or both parties, and perhaps somewhat unrealistic expectations.

I think that it's reasonable to ask a luthier to get the strings lower and not buzz. What would be the point of the exercise paying someone to set the strings so low that they are unplayable? Why would he do that? Also if it's not possible he should let the client know. He sounds like an unskilled luthier.

[morlll]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Intonation issues using a capo aren't always indicative of a high saddle either.

High nut slots can be primary culprits, especially in the top 3-4 frets & capo placement can play a role too.

String buzz (in this case) is most likely due to too low nut slots/low saddle/excess back bow, (maybe a combination of all the above).

Personally, this "luthier" would not see my face through his door again. 2 tries is enough.

Once would be enough for me.

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Luthiers BUILD guitars. Techs SET UP and FIX guitars. Being a superior tech does not make someone a luthier.

Yes, luthiers build guitars (and violins.) However, some luthiers also restore guitars, repair guitars, and set guitars up.

[warfrat73]

Originally Posted by morlll

I think that it's reasonable to ask a luthier to get the strings lower and not buzz. What would be the point of the exercise paying someone to set the strings so low that they are unplayable? Why would he do that? Also if it's not possible he should let the client know. He sounds like an unskilled luthier.

I mean, yeah, to a point.

But it's always a trade off, and depends greatly on playing style, attack and technique.

I have a pretty heavy attack, and play a lot of bluegrassy stuff, and if I picked up a guitar setup for a fingerstylist with a light touch, and I did't adjust my playing style, it would buzz so much that it would be virtually unplayable.

That said, I can pick up a guitar with high action and make that buzz too if I start plucking the string off axis.

Lowering the action makes strings more likely to buzz with any given playing style. Lowering action reduces break angle and changes energy transfer to the top, at some point this effects the tonality and volume.

No luthier/tech in the world can make these things untrue.

This is why communication is so important. If the tech didn't ask questions about attack or playing style, or watch the OP play, that was a mistake. If all the OP did was say I want lower action without explaining details, that was also a mistake.

I don't know who the tech is, but a bunch of people on here seem about ready to hang him/her out to dry because MAYBE he lowered a saddle a bit too much... or maybe he did exactly what he thought he was being asked. If the OP communicated all of this info, and the tech still fouled it up, then maybe he is a hack... or maybe he just had a bad day.

[ericcsong]

Originally Posted by warfrat73

The complaint here seems to be that you asked the tech to lower the action, he lowered the action, and that that resulted in string buzzing and a perceived decline in volume and tone.

As both string buzz and reduced volume/tonality are side effects of low action, I don't see either of those issues as being inherently problematic.

It seems reasonably likely that the problem is a result of poor communication from one or both parties, and perhaps somewhat unrealistic expectations.

^very well articulated.

I see a lot of things going on here that raise a few questions. As for the luthier, I can personally vouch for his work and he does some of the best set up work I've experienced with all styles of guitars and playing. Also, many on AGF members in the DC area have used this tech/luthier many times.

[lowrider]

This two-page thread is yet another good example of why we should all learn t set up our own guitars. Get a few tools, nut files, feeler gauges, a truss rod wrench, a machinist rule, and some sandpaper are all you need. Watch a few videos and start taking care of your own guitars.

Once you get used to it, the whole process on a new guitar takes about a half-hour. Usually, you can't even drive to the ''expert'' in a half hour

[jaymarsch]

Originally Posted by lowrider

This two-page thread is yet another good example of why we should all learn t set up our own guitars. Get a few tools, nut files, feeler gauges, a truss rod wrench, a machinist rule, and some sandpaper are all you need. Watch a few videos and start taking care of your own guitars.

Once you get used to it, the whole process on a new guitar takes about a half-hour. Usually, you can't even drive to the ''expert'' in a half hour

If I lived in an area where great luthiers and highly respected techs were not available, I would take the plunge, but I am lucky to have access to both so can have these things done by folks who, as the Farmer's commercial goes (paraphrasing): "can successfully address a lot of stuff because they have already seen a lot of stuff."

Best,
Jayne

[Brucebubs]

Best results I ever got was the time I bought my Guild F-412 with me when my new Martin 12 needed a set-up.
I asked to set up the Martin to match the Guild.
They did a fantastic job.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by lowrider

This two-page thread is yet another good example of why we should all learn t set up our own guitars. Get a few tools, nut files, feeler gauges, a truss rod wrench, a machinist rule, and some sandpaper are all you need. Watch a few videos and start taking care of your own guitars.

Once you get used to it, the whole process on a new guitar takes about a half-hour. Usually, you can't even drive to the ''expert'' in a half hour

Sure if you have the interest and the aptitude. Not everyone does.

Ditto for doing your own car tune-up, making your own clothes, growing your own food, doing your own financial investing...

[Nick S]

In my experience, excellent fret leveling, even on a new guitar, makes it possible to play with lower action and/or a straighter neck, if that's what you like.

Nick S.

[M Hayden]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

My advice would be to buy a good selection of saddles and learn to sand them yourself. Nothing beats starting with a little too high and slowly getting it right (which means at this stage of the game you will be reinstalling the saddles and strings over and over). Also be prepared to discard a few where you went to far.

One trick for saddle sanding is having a vice with a perfectly flat top. I had mine ground by a machine shop but vices like this are available for sale. You masking tape the saddle to one side of the vice with just what you want to remove from the saddle bottom showing over the top. Then lock up the vice and sand with any convenient sandpaper holder.

^^^ This, a thousand times. I buy (or make) my own bone blanks and use foam-core acrylic nail files from the drugstore to shape the saddle once the blank has a flat bottom, and it works great. It also allows me to build a saddle, record the dimensions (overall height of saddle at each string, compensation amount from front of saddle, etc) and thus be able to repeat the setup.

Foam-core acrylic nail files are cheap and don’t cut too fast so there’s a lot of control. Yes, do rough shaping on a belt sander or the like, but once the blank is roughly to dimension, go to hand tools to fit it the rest of the way.

A set of nut files doesn’t cost too much and is also useful, providing that you spend time learning to use them. It’s easy to cut a nut too low, so work slowly. I like to cut nuts a little lower than most, but not so low that they rattle. Take time and learn how it works and sounds, and what you like.

When you get the instrument to your liking, measure everything with a fine caliper - nut height, amount of clearance between the string and 1st fret when fretted at the 3rd fret, relief measured with string held down at 1st and body frets, strings in use (set or gauges), action at 12th fret, et cetera. That makes for a good and repeatable setup.

[Denny B]

Originally Posted by ericcsong

^very well articulated.

I see a lot of things going on here that raise a few questions. As for the luthier, I can personally vouch for his work and he does some of the best set up work I've experienced with all styles of guitars and playing. Also, many on AGF members in the DC area have used this tech/luthier many times.

I'm curious who did the work for the OP, and who you're vouching for...I haven't seen that information mentioned.

[ericcsong]

Originally Posted by Denny B

I'm curious who did the work for the OP, and who you're vouching for...I haven't seen that information mentioned.

She doesn't want to mention luthier. She made a previous post and I made a strong recommendation as others did.