Personal Thoughts on Guitar Picks for Bluegrass

[Robin, Wales]

I played dobro in a bluegrass band for a number of years, however, I recently decided to start playing guitar again after a long gap. Having toured guitar shops, I settled on buying a Seagull S6 Coastline Spruce that I picked up from a guitar shop in Glasgow, and which is proving a very pragmatic workhorse and quite a bluegrass cannon! Coming to flatpicking guitar after years of using thumb and fingerpicks on a dobro has been a challenge but also an enjoyable exercise. It is great to learn something; however, the genera is very familiar as I've played dobro alongside some excellent bluegrass guitarists in my time, so I have a good idea where I want to get to with my playing.

I've been particularly focussed on getting the 'best' tone I can from my Seagull S6 Spruce, which has bags of character (which is why I bought it!). Having tried many different string sets on the guitar I have settled on D’Addario Nickel Bronze medium/lights, which was not where I expected to end up! Setting up my Seagull from new was very straightforward – the neck angle is excellent, so I had plenty of break angle over the bridge to work with. I have fitted a new bone bridge, that I have found blends the strings better when strumming that the stock Tusq one did. The fretboard on my guitar is true and the frets well levelled and dressed by the factory – so no work needed there. The 2 way truss rod has allowed for fine adjustment of relief and the nut slots just required a light touch with nut files. My set-up with a 12-56 string set is a pretty standard 2.5mm bass side to 2mm treble side at the 12th fret with 0.006” to 0.008” of relief at the 7th fret. The result is a very easy playing guitar all the way up the neck but still with plenty of room to 'dig in' for volume.

I'm a great believer in practical testing – and I figured that the flatpick was going to be the engine of my playing and the most crucial tool for developing 'my' sound - so finding picks that worked for me was obviously in my sights. In terms of my playing genera, I'm looking at 90% standard bluegrass rhythm guitar with bass runs and fills, intros and endings, over which I sing. So I'm primarily working on using the guitar to accompany voice rather than the guitar playing being my primary focus. In fact, I want to get my guitar playing to a level of competence where it is not noticeable, if that make sense?; so it sounds like my guitar is just smoothly going about its business without me (or without my conscious mind anyway!). One of my first challenges has been that the keys we used to play songs in the band (where I sang harmony) don't work for me when I sing solo! So I'm straight into learning to play out of different open chord starting positions (G, C, D, Em, Am) with and without a capo.

Coming fresh to flatpicking I had few preconceptions about what picks to try, so have spent time experimenting with everything I could lay my hands on. So what have I found? Well, for starters, I have found that a good 70% or more of a picks tone comes from the shape/thickness/bevel of the bit that strikes the strings. And that very small changes to the point's roundness, overall pick thickness and the bevels yield big changes in tone and playability. I bought packs of cheap thickish picks in Tortex and Ultex and just messed around with a small file and some sandpaper to see what a wide variety of tone and feel across the strings I could get by altering the points. I'm now getting the hang of filing point shapes and adjusting bevels and so can 'move' the tone and playability around on any pick I buy. I know that if a pick is tripping me up or is a little harsh that I can work on it with files, sandpaper and polishes to make it smoother sounding and less catchy. Overall thickness of a pick also effects the tone too, so I've played around with different thicknesses. Personally, I'm not using anything below 1.2mm now and go up to 2.5mm in my pick set. So, setting aside point shape and thickness that constitute 70% + of the tone, lets come to the other 30%, which is the material the pick is made from. It is strange that pick material gets all the discussion whereas pick shape/thickness is actually a far bigger determinant of tone and playability. A badly shaped and wrong thickness pick out of a 'good' material will not give as good a tone or playability as a well shaped pick made from a 'bad' material. Anyway, here are my thoughts on a few of the many materials I have tried so far.

Tortex/Ultex/Primetone etc (Delrin, and other cheaper DuPont plastics) – These are medium grade industrial technical plastics purloined by pick makers. Most are a little bright (except Dunlop nylon which is dull). Primetone are made from the same material as Ultex, which is brighter than the Delrin used for Tortex. All the ones I've tried have been difficult to hang on to (Pick Honey helps!). None sound or handle anything like hawksbill turtleshell – despite the hype. They are quite cheap though and it you get the right thickness and shape for you and your guitar then they are absolutely fine. And why not go for the cheap option if it works for you? I find them a bit mid range dominant on my guitar so the strum is messier than with some other materials.

Vespel – (Blue Chip) High grade engineering plastic by DuPont and a ridiculously expensive material. Quite rounded in sound. Slides across the strings (easy playing). Easy to hold on to. On my guitar the material takes out some of the mid 'scoop' and sort of flattens the eq, so the 'chick' of the 'boom, chick' is a little out of balance. I have to adjust my strumming to counter this. Sounds nothing like hawksbill turtleshell but they are very, very easy picks to use – it is almost cheating! I expect that for fast flatpicking lead playing of fiddle tunes etc then the Blue Chips would really come into their own. For me though Vespel is not 'perfect' for strumming to sing over but their ease of use can somewhat outweigh that different tone and, when using a capo up the neck, the roundness of tone is a plus. So I'd rank BC as in the top 3 for me.

Hawksbill Turtleshell. - Good bass and shimmering top - warm. Easy playing. Easy to hold on to. Some pick noise. Better on played-in strings. Very natural sounding on my guitar. Not as loud as a BC or Wegen. I made a pick from an old broken shoehorn. Turtleshell doesn't make my top 3 because of its provenance and it is not practical (short lived and not easily replaced). In terms of tone, the material is not the holy grail.

Casein/Erinoid/Galalith – Early 1900 plastic made from milk. Easy to shape. Easy to hold on to. Perhaps better on played-in strings. Very natural sounding on my guitar. Brighter than hawksbill turtleshell with a little more pick noise (adjusting my attack angle reduces this) but closer to it than other picks. In the top 3 for me, and my own picks I make from casein are the ones I reach for first.

Wegen (engineer's Nylon?) - Solid tone and loud – a banjo killer. Difficult to hang on to (again I use Pick Honey). Less top end than turtleshell but nice all the same. More difficult to sing over than casein but in the top 3 for me.

Bearing in mind that shape is about 70% of a picks tone I quite like Casein as it is a cheap material, non-allergenic, biodegradable, easy to cut, sand, shape and polish. So making my own picks, with a tone and playability that I want, is very straightforward. With a good shaped point (slightly rounded with speed bevels and well polished edges), casein gives me those deep lows and shimmering top end with a mid scoop that allows me to sing over my guitar. The material tends to make picks that are not as 'shouty' in the strum as Wegen or Blue Chip, because of this scooped out mid range. My casein picks actually sounds very natural or perhaps ‘guitar neutral’ is a good descriptor. I'm finding that a thickness of 1.3 to 1.5mm seems to work best for me. Also casein sticks to my fingers like turtleshell and Vespel, which is a real bonus for precision playing. However, casein can produce pick noise (click) and can be scratchy if not shaped and polished well, or if my angle of attack is poor.

There are a few companies that make picks from Casein so you can buy something ready made (Red Bear, Hawk and John Pearse come to mind). However, I've actually learned a lot about playing with a flapick from making my own picks and so would recommend folks have a go themselves. There are a few suppliers of casein blocks or sheets so it is worth a search on the internet. I've attached a couple of photos of my pick collection and of a casein block with slices cut off it and a few of the picks I've made.

So my top 3 picks at present are Blue Chip, Wegen, and making my own out of casein. I wouldn't want to give a ranking for the 3 materials as my use of them is somewhat situational, save to say that it is the casein ones I have made myself that I end up using the most as they bring out the most natural tone from my guitar.

[Tnfiddler]

I use a Wegen Bluegrass 1.20 as my primary pick and have a BC TD50, but I find that it dulls my tone too much and I'm not that fond of it. I did a blind test of picks using the Wegen, BC and a Primetone Small Triangle 1.4 a few weeks ago using our bass player and banjo player to pick the best sound. I had them turn their backs to me and switched between my Bourgeois and my Martin switching up the picks and guitars randomly. They both preferred the tone of the Wegen over the other picks every time and that matched my own preference for it, as well.

[Blueser100]

I've simplified my guitar pick life considerably in recent weeks. I decided to take the plunge and buy two Blue Chip picks. They are the best picks I've ever had. Then I took the 403 random picks I'd collected over 20+ years and donated them all to Guitars 4 Vets.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Wow, Robin, what a great post. You've really taken the time to investigate and explore, very much what I did in the early days.

The world is full of pluses and minuses. Every material has an upside accompanied by a downside. It gives us a lot of choices in pick materials, and I find I play different materials for different songs or different tones I'm seeking.

Bravo to you for doing the pick and shovel work. It's fun!

Scott Memmer

[printer2]

Heavy ones to flick at banjo players.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Wow, Robin, what a great post. You've really taken the time to investigate and explore, very much what I did in the early days.

The world is full of pluses and minuses. Every material has an upside accompanied by a downside. It gives us a lot of choices in pick materials, and I find I play different materials for different songs or different tones I'm seeking.

Bravo to you for doing the pick and shovel work. It's fun!

Scott Memmer

Thanks Scott,

You have some great picks in your store! I'm a fan of practically testing and experimenting and keeping as open a mind as possible when learning about something new (not easy - as we all carry a lot of baggage!). What has surprised me is just how important a pick is to developing tone, speed and balance when flatpicking (the name of the technique is a giveaway I suppose ). And how such small changes in design can make big changes in those three aspects. Then the material you use is sort of the final piece of the puzzle. Like you I do find myself switching picks for different scenarios. So I find it is quite good to have a broad selection.

Robin

[Silly Moustache]

Hi Robin,Wales (do you have a Charles in the family?)

I see that you have followed a similar path to me, and come up with a very similar answer.
See :

IMHO - Blue Chip picks simply cannot be beaten. (TAD 50 for me!)

346 (large triangles are: a) best value, and b) best grip, c) three in one!

Wegen TF 120/140 are the second best (I prefer them on my 12 strings).

Also, if you want to convert/bevel/polish cheaper picks , see

[Wade Hampton]

It sounds as though you've pursued this methodically and analytically, which puts you ahead of a lot of us.

Like you, I share your ambivalence about tortoiseshell picks. I was using a tortoiseshell pick when I won my first place championship at the Winfield festival in 1980, but overall I find it an impractical material to use on a regular basis. Plus, I just don't care for its "clickiness" and find I can get a better tone from celluloid picks at a fraction of the price.

Celluloid picks are deeply unfashionable in bluegrass circles these days, but I like them a lot. I also like Blue Chip picks, and own several of them. Unlike you I like picks that have just a bit of flex to them, because my playing on all of the stringed instruments I play is a combination of rhythm with melody. I can't get the drive I need with rigid picks. So the Blue Chip pick I favor is the TD-35, which gives me the perfect blend of flex and rigidity.

Getting good tone really is a matter of your right hand attack as well as the pick material, so over the years I've developed an attack that works for the way I play.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading your post, and welcome to the forum. I take it that you're in Wales, am I reading your screen name correctly? I have a great-grandfather who emigrated to the US from Wales, making me 1/8th Welsh. Unlike Irish-Americans with their shamrocks and kelly green, or Scottish-Americans with their kilts and bagpipes and odd fascination with Robert Burns poetry that's written in an indecipherable Scots dialect, Welsh-Americans are fairly low key, and you can only spot them if they're named Jones or Davis. There are no drinking holidays associated with the Welsh in North America, not that I'm aware of, but perhaps that's just as well.

Anyhow, I'm glad you've decided to take part in the forum.


Wade Hampton Miller

PS: I have Ulster Irish and Scottish ancestry, too, so I feel it's okay for me to needle that side of the family a little bit...

[kjcole]

Nice thorough approach. However, if the bevel wasn't the same on all these picks we may have a confounding variable.

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

PS: I have Ulster Irish and Scottish ancestry, too, so I feel it's okay for me to needle that side of the family a little bit...

Hmmm. The critique of Robbie Burns poetry sounded a wee bit harsh. Undecipherable? Yikes. Try a dram of scotch before the next reading. It helps.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

It sounds as though you've pursued this methodically and analytically, which puts you ahead of a lot of us.

Like you, I share your ambivalence about tortoiseshell picks. I was using a tortoiseshell pick when I won my first place championship at the Winfield festival in 1980, but overall I find it an impractical material to use on a regular basis. Plus, I just don't care for its "clickiness" and find I can get a better tone from celluloid picks at a fraction of the price.

Celluloid picks are deeply unfashionable in bluegrass circles these days, but I like them a lot. I also like Blue Chip picks, and own several of them. Unlike you I like picks that have just a bit of flex to them, because my playing on all of the stringed instruments I play is a combination of rhythm with melody. I can't get the drive I need with rigid picks. So the Blue Chip pick I favor is the TD-35, which gives me the perfect blend of flex and rigidity.

Getting good tone really is a matter of your right hand attack as well as the pick material, so over the years I've developed an attack that works for the way I play.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading your post, and welcome to the forum. I take it that you're in Wales, am I reading your screen name correctly? I have a great-grandfather who emigrated to the US from Wales, making me 1/8th Welsh. Unlike Irish-Americans with their shamrocks and kelly green, or Scottish-Americans with their kilts and bagpipes and odd fascination with Robert Burns poetry that's written in an indecipherable Scots dialect, Welsh-Americans are fairly low key, and you can only spot them if they're named Jones or Davis. There are no drinking holidays associated with the Welsh in North America, not that I'm aware of, but perhaps that's just as well.

Anyhow, I'm glad you've decided to take part in the forum.


Wade Hampton Miller

PS: I have Ulster Irish and Scottish ancestry, too, so I feel it's okay for me to needle that side of the family a little bit...

Wade, thanks for the history lesson.

My mother's maiden name was Cadnum -- straight UK/British stock. My father's side has more questionable papers. It's rumored that our last name was originally longer, like Memmerstein or Memmeritz or something like that, but you know those pesky guys at Ellis Island lopped off the end of any last name that was longer than about six letters.

BTW, I grew up in Cleveland, and every Memmer I've met or heard of had roots in the corner of north-eastern Indiana or north-western Ohio. Every one. Does anyone out there know any other Memmers?

I just did my Ancestry.com thing and am awaiting results. I tell people I'm certain I was desended from dukes, earls or emperors, although it'll probably end up being some street sweeper in eastern Europe.

memmer

[varmonter]

When i play bluegrass i use a slightly heavier gauge pick. usually between 1
5 and 2mil. I just find it easier.
That said my go to pick these days is
the 351 shaped white fender xtra heavy.
I think they are around 1.4. not sure though. I have a couple of wegans and blue chips. but at 100x the price of the
fenders the bluechips stay home.
Funny how a cheap celluloid pick wins
out over all the boutique ones out there.
For me of course. I wont use hawksbill
For the obvious reasons. But the ones ive tried were just ok.Certainly not worth
the price. Or the concern about the origin.Not judging just saying.
But the fenders for me have been a staple now for about 5 years. But im always up for something new.
probably sell my bc picks i really
dont use them much at all.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by bufflehead

Hmmm. The critique of Robbie Burns poetry sounded a wee bit harsh. Undecipherable? Yikes. Try a dram of scotch before the next reading. It helps.

Oh, no, it doesn’t...not for me, anyway.

No, seriously, I recognize that Robert Burns is a great poet, and I’ve heard musical settings of some of his work that’s been profoundly moving.

I just wish that I could understand more than every third word...


whm

[collingsd2]

SO MANY PICKS. I love it.
At IBMA there was a company called McCray picks. I got one and loved it. I'm not sure if they are still around or not but I might look into them as well.

[Robin, Wales]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions for picks to try. In particular, I was struck by the comments about celluloid picks and realised I had neglected to try any out! I think I was blinded by custom picks and fancy materials and the fact that celluloid picks don’t seem to appear on the radar of the bluegrass flatpickers I had researched up to that point in time. So, I bought a pack of Fender 346 Extra Heavy picks – they are about 1.2mm thick and the classic large triangle shape with no bevelling. Well, as one youtube pick reviewer put it they are “not bad”. In fact I have found them more useable that the Tortex and Ultex (prime tone) picks I have. They are easy to hold on to and slide across the strings, even without a bevel. They are a little quieter for the same stroke force than the Blue Chip or Wegen picks I have (which is actually a bonus when I’m singing as I can play a little heavier) The sound is mellower in the strum but perhaps a little brighter, or has more attack, when picking the bass strings. The material is soft and forgiving, and maybe ‘forgiving’ is a good way of describing the pick overall. I can be quite physical in my playing and get away with it, plus there’s a nice kinaesthetic feedback from the pick compared to Tortex and Ultex which feel pretty dead in my hand. The tone is not outstanding but it is ‘good enough’ and in many respects the playability outweighs this factor. The material will wear quickly but at $5 for a dozen picks that’s not a great issue (plus you have 3 points per pick!). Overall, I’m really starting to like the Fender 346 Extra Heavy picks, they have a lot going for them, and seeing as guitar players have been using celluloid picks for over 100 years they are certainly worth a try!