Need help with stubborn pinkie

[Deliberate1]

Friends, I am working on open chord transitions. I find it a challenge to go from open C to open G with the G formed using the pinkie on high E and ring on the low E. The pinkie just don't want to go. I have no issues with the index/middle/ring form. But that form seems uneconomical when going from C or F to G. I do have a bit of arthritis in my fingers, which likely contributes to the problem. But mostly, I think the pinkie and ring have separation anxiety.
Any suggestions?
Many thanks.
David

[M19]

Keep the ring and pinkie in place (muting the A) for your G then simple ADD your index and middle fingers for the C chord. The pinkie g sounds just fine. You can also get a nice hammer-on effect (from G to C) this way. Classic stuff.

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by M19

Keep the ring and pinkie in place (muting the A) for your G then simple ADD your index and middle fingers for the C chord. The pinkie g sounds just fine. You can also get a nice hammer-on effect (from G to C) this way. Classic stuff.

Thanks, mate. See if I got it. So, form the C with the pinkie on the high E, and keep in place while transitioning the other fingers off the G to form the C?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

Friends, I am working on open chord transitions. I find it a challenge to go from open C to open G with the G formed using the pinkie on high E and ring on the low E. The pinkie just don't want to go. I have no issues with the index/middle/ring form. But that form seems uneconomical when going from C or F to G. I do have a bit of arthritis in my fingers, which likely contributes to the problem. But mostly, I think the pinkie and ring have separation anxiety.
Any suggestions?
Many thanks.
David

Hi david

I can tell you from nearly 40 years of teaching guitar that 'taming' a pinky involves teaching it to relax so you can move it to where it should be going. The more you force it, the more stubborn (and less flexible) it becomes.

Whenever a student was doing battle with certain fingerings which involved the pinky, I had them slow down and resist the urge to 'push' the tempo, or speed of the thing they were attempting to master.

I've seen student's pinkies lock up when attempt a fingering, and I'd have the player reach over with the other hand and lift it so it would bend, and then relax and try it slower. I recognized it because my pinky used to lock up when I was pushing things…

With the two finger G (pinky on 1st string, ring on 6th), and learning to be comfortable in it's role/place…you can work on it by playing a D, then Dsus (with pinky on 6th) and leave the pinky in place and drop the ring onto the 6th string in a gentle fashion. After a few hundred times, you will learn to relax it into fingering patterns.

It's almost like the pinky learns it, but it's really your brain/muscles learning it and letting the pinky think it's controlling things.

You are right about the efficiency of the two finger G chord. And it's a more balanced chord as well. The pad of my ring mutes the 5th string. The old-school three finger G is out of balance because it doubles the third of the chord (which weakens it).

Both the two finger G and four finger G remedy that.

2 finger G…only fingers 4 & 3 touching stings…


4 finger G…

[Deliberate1]

Larry, many thanks for your time and generous effort.
I am afraid that you give me too much credit when you assume I knew that there actually is a two finger G form. Actually, I had no idea but now see how easily it can be done by muting the 5th string. Muting is a new concept for me. Truth be told, I seem to unintentionally mute the A string anyways when trying to make the stretch. And now I see how that can work on purpose. Very cool.
Agree that relaxation helps enormously. One of the things I am working on is the conscious relaxation of my neck, shoulders on down. As I am new to the guitar, my body tends to stiffen when frustration sets in. Forcing the pinkie into position does not work. But it is counter-intuitive to relax to achieve an unnatural position. When I remember to relax just at those moments, my fingers are more pliable and responsive, just as you say.
Thank you very much for the D to Dsus to G drill that is a great one to train the brain.
Larry, you gave me a good lesson for which I am grateful. You are a very good teacher. You don't happen to live in Maine, do you?
Cheers,
David

[DukeX]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

Friends, I am working on open chord transitions. I find it a challenge to go from open C to open G with the G formed using the pinkie on high E and ring on the low E. The pinkie just don't want to go. I have no issues with the index/middle/ring form. But that form seems uneconomical when going from C or F to G...

How is it uneconomical if you "have no issues" with it?

I use both forms, BTW, depending on what I'm playing, but I am much faster and economical with the ima form.

If the ima form is what works best, that's what I'd use.

[zztush]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

Friends, I am working on open chord transitions. I find it a challenge to go from open C to open G with the G formed using the pinkie on high E and ring on the low E. The pinkie just don't want to go. I have no issues with the index/middle/ring form. But that form seems uneconomical when going from C or F to G. I do have a bit of arthritis in my fingers, which likely contributes to the problem. But mostly, I think the pinkie and ring have separation anxiety.
Any suggestions?
Many thanks.
David

Hi, David! I think your pinky should have flexed in C chord (see the photos below) in some extend. Otherwise our pinky often locked and hard to flex on G in the transition between them.

[M19]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

Thanks, mate. See if I got it. So, form the C with the pinkie on the high E, and keep in place while transitioning the other fingers off the G to form the C?

Almost. With my approach, you "lose" the root of the C chord, as the a string is muted by your ring finger on the E string (at position 3-G). So form the G with ring finger on E string at three and pinkie at e string on three, muting the A sting with your ring finger. 3x0003. The the C is adding the index and middle fingers, but not the ring finger in the A string, 3x2013.

[Deliberate1]

,

Originally Posted by DukeX

How is it uneconomical if you "have no issues" with it?

I use both forms, BTW, depending on what I'm playing, but I am much faster and economical with the ima form.

If the ima form is what works best, that's what I'd use.

I am new to the guitar. But I am not new to music, as a clarinet and sax player for 55 years, and semi-pro jazz player. When I use the term "uneconomical" I am referring to economy of movement. That is, employing the least movement necessary to accomplish a tonal change. With woodwinds, it can mean keep certain fingers down during a transition to make it more seamless, faster and positive. Duke you obviously understand what I am referring to because you state that you employ the same consideration in your own playing, choosing a form depending on the circumstances
I also bring that perspective to the guitar Consequently, it became apparent to me that an open C to G is most economically achieved with the use of the middle and ring fingers, shifting them both just one string over to the A and E strings, rather than moving the index finger all the way over from the B to to the A string which may be "uneconomical," depending on the next transition. It is good to have more than one tool in the chest, as you point out. I am in the process of making them.
Cheers.
David

[rick-slo]

Most things get better with more practice.

1. fingernails very short (non-existent white).

2. Try perhaps as a warm-up: strum the C chord, the move pinky to first string/third fret while keeping the other fingers where they were and then play just the first string, then while holding down the first string move the other fingers to the G chord position and strum the G chord. Note that on the G chord the third fingertip can be placed partially off the fretboard (gives you more room to not mute the fifth string).

--0------3-----3
--1------------0
--0------------0
--2------------0
--3------------2
--x------------3

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

…You don't happen to live in Maine, do you?
Cheers,
David

Hi David

No, but I feel like it today. We had about 5" of snow with 45 mph winds and snow drifts everywhere yesterday.

You are welcome…

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Most things get better with more practice.

1. fingernails very short (non-existent white).

2. Try perhaps as a warm-up: strum the C chord, the move pinky to first string/third fret while keeping the other fingers where they were and then play just the first string, then while holding down the first string move the other fingers to the G chord position and strum the G chord. Note that on the G chord the third fingertip can be placed partially off the fretboard (gives you more room to not mute the fifth string).

--0------3-----3
--1------------0
--0------------0
--2------------0
--3------------2
--x------------3

Derek, obliged for the task.
First off, roger on the nails - they are very short.
I like your drill. Especially because it gets the pinkie down on the high E string early, before the transition. I have found it difficult to coordinate a simultaneous move of the pinkie to string 1 and ring to string 6. Working on it, though. This will help.
Cheers.
David

[12barBill]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Most things get better with more practice.

1. fingernails very short (non-existent white).

2. Try perhaps as a warm-up: strum the C chord, the move pinky to first string/third fret while keeping the other fingers where they were and then play just the first string, then while holding down the first string move the other fingers to the G chord position and strum the G chord. Note that on the G chord the third fingertip can be placed partially off the fretboard (gives you more room to not mute the fifth string).

--0------3-----3
--1------------0
--0------------0
--2------------0
--3------------2
--x------------3

I guarantee that if you start doing this, and treat it as a practice drill or exercise, with enough repetitions you will see major improvement in that C to G to C to G... transition (and use that fingering for the open Gmaj chord).

[DesertTwang]

Practice. No, really. I remember when my teacher first asked me to play the G chord that way, my response was, "no way, that's insane!" I didn't see the benefit, either. But on his insistence, I begrudgingly agreed and practiced it. And practiced. And practiced.

I think it took me weeks, if not months, to finally be able to do it. And then something very interesting happened: What I had dreaded as the most ridiculously convoluted way of fretting a chord became my go-to, all-the-time-I-fret-my-G-this-way chord shape. To the point where fretting it the old way became cumbersome and uncomfortable.

But again, on the insistence of my teacher who stressed that I needed to be fluent and comfortable with both shapes, I practiced both.

Now, years later, I just laugh at myself, because of course my teacher was right. I can play the G both ways just fine, but there simply is no shortcut.

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

Now, years later, I just laugh at myself, because of course my teacher was right. I can play the G both ways just fine, but there simply is no shortcut.

Good teachers will do that to and for you. I had a clarinet teacher from 3-12th grade like that. And what he taught me has had a profound impact on my entire music-making life. I think of him every time I put my tenor sax in my mouth - because it was his horn which I acquired when he passed.
Cheeers.
David