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Old 11-21-2019, 01:01 PM
ba4x ba4x is offline
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Default Ideas for compensating this saddle/bridge? 1970s Alvarez

Hello,

I recently picked up an Alvarez 000 style guitar (5014 model). It's pretty beat up but I really enjoy playing it, I felt an instant bond with the guitar. Through it's life the guitar has seen a number of repairs. Among them seems to be a replacement of the adjustable saddle which came originally on this 5014 model. It appears the adjusting unit was removed, and a wooden insert was made to accommodate a standard saddle. I like this approach, it lets the saddle sit on wood instead of metal, and it doesn't look so toyish like the original. However, the saddle installed now is completely straight and lacks proper intonation. On the low E string, for example, even fretting the 3rd fret to play a G chord results in a significantly sharp G, it's noticeable. I suspect the anchor point for the low E string is off by 1/8 inch or more.

Here are some photos to illustrate the point.

The guitar

Current state of the bridge, with the wooden "insert" holding the saddle.

Suspected original configuration, with adjustable metal saddle holder

The bridge has a big open slot to accommodate a metal saddle holder. It is roughly 1/4 in wide. Beneath it, the top wood is exposed. Currently, that slot is filled with a wooden insert which holds a conventional saddle. Unfortunately, the insert was made to hold the saddle completely straight (perpendicular to the strings).

Any ideas for addressing this? I can see a few options:

1) Find a replacement metal saddle holder

2) Fashion a new wooden insert with a proper angle

3) Buy a very large saddle (1/4" thick) and file the intonation into it

As I live in an apartment without a proper workshop, I'm a bit limited in my ability to route a new insert. Do you think they can be purchased anywhere? Or something to start with, which I can file down to size? Maybe even setting the bone saddle in the slot with spacers on either side is an option.

Thanks for the feedback
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Old 11-21-2019, 01:54 PM
Edgar Poe Edgar Poe is offline
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I have done that same modification, but I did angle the saddle slot for intonation.
The saddle in your guitar appears to be an unintonated straight saddle. Maybe you could install an intonated saddle and that may help a bit. Otherwise the only solution is to remake the insert, or go back to the original assembly.
Unfortunately Several years ago, I contacted Tom at Alvarez in regards to the inserts for the adjustable saddle assembly. I was able to buy the LAST 6 inserts they had in stock.
I still have them as I did not need them after all.

Ed

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Old 11-21-2019, 02:17 PM
ba4x ba4x is offline
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Hi Ed,

That is great to hear. I knew someone hit this issue!

A few questions for you:

-Is there a way I can view that photobucket image without the blur and watermark?

-Do you mean to say Alvarez sold those wooden inserts in "unrouted" blank form? So you bought one and routed the saddle slot yourself?

-Are you willing to part with one or two of those blanks? I can PM if that's the case, willing to pay!

The saddle on my guitar is intonated in the familiar way (low E and B strings are anchored further back), which seems a bit half-hearted given the improper angle. I think it was just dropped in at some point.

Thanks for the information!
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Old 11-21-2019, 02:23 PM
JonWint JonWint is offline
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How far off is the saddle location? Measure it and that may determine how the fix will look.

If you don't know the required location, this will help (method, tool not required): https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Onlin...ddlematic.html
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Old 11-21-2019, 02:33 PM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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I see what you mean about the insert being straight.

I'm no expert but could compensating at the nut work on this guitar?

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Old 11-21-2019, 02:56 PM
Edgar Poe Edgar Poe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ba4x View Post
Hi Ed,

That is great to hear. I knew someone hit this issue!

A few questions for you:

-Is there a way I can view that photobucket image without the blur and watermark?

-Do you mean to say Alvarez sold those wooden inserts in "unrouted" blank form? So you bought one and routed the saddle slot yourself?

-Are you willing to part with one or two of those blanks? I can PM if that's the case, willing to pay!

The saddle on my guitar is intonated in the familiar way (low E and B strings are anchored further back), which seems a bit half-hearted given the improper angle. I think it was just dropped in at some point.

Thanks for the information!
No I made the entire set up myself.
The problem with the Photobucket images they are useless unless you pay their ransom this is what downloads look like. If you give me your email, I can send the photos to you.
I wish the AGF would please host an on board photo gallery. I had over 1000 photos on Photobucket that are basically gone to me and others unless I pay the Ransom.

Ed
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Old 01-03-2020, 02:55 PM
ba4x ba4x is offline
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Well I got some time and went for the easy/absurd option. Bought a giant piece of TUSQ to fit the wide saddle slot. Shaped it to address the intonation problems (essentially maxing out the possible length of the low E string). It looks pretty strange but it improved the situation. The intonation is better overall, still not perfect. I think the bridge needs to be moved or routed to actually fix it. As a cheap stopgap, I shortened the low E string at the nut. This brings things roughly into shape. It's much better than how I got the guitar.

How funny, I keep coming back to this beater guitar. I love everything about it, and hate everything at the same time. The intonation is a real mess, the neck is curved, some frets are too high, the action is quite high to accommodate for it... But I love it. The guitar shape, size, the string spacing, the feel of the neck, the somehow brilliant 70's laminate wood tone, it just feels perfect all over. One day I'll find a carbon copy in better shape And for now it's fun to tinker with.





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Old 01-03-2020, 06:21 PM
ClaptonWannabe2 ClaptonWannabe2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ba4x View Post
Well I got some time and went for the easy/absurd option. Bought a giant piece of TUSQ to fit the wide saddle slot. Shaped it to address the intonation problems (essentially maxing out the possible length of the low E string). It looks pretty strange but it improved the situation. The intonation is better overall, still not perfect. I think the bridge needs to be moved or routed to actually fix it. As a cheap stopgap, I shortened the low E string at the nut. This brings things roughly into shape. It's much better than how I got the guitar.

How funny, I keep coming back to this beater guitar. I love everything about it, and hate everything at the same time. The intonation is a real mess, the neck is curved, some frets are too high, the action is quite high to accommodate for it... But I love it. The guitar shape, size, the string spacing, the feel of the neck, the somehow brilliant 70's laminate wood tone, it just feels perfect all over. One day I'll find a carbon copy in better shape And for now it's fun to tinker with.





IF you are good enough to do all of that, you are good enough to change out the entire bridge to something more traditional.

You spent a night or two sanding that Tusq to fit the hole, you have the patience to remove and replace a bridge and saddle.
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Old 01-04-2020, 06:40 AM
sportycliff sportycliff is offline
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Wait, am I missing something?

Maybe it's just the photo or my eyes, but it looks like you lengthened the low e (and a) at the bridge, then shortened it at the nut??

Sorry if I missed something.
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Old 01-04-2020, 08:01 AM
Dave Abrahamson Dave Abrahamson is offline
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Great timing on this thread. I'm essentially doing the same thing to an old 70's Bentley. I cut a piece of bone to fit like you did with the tusq.
Did you set it in the slot right on the top wood or did you put a floor in the saddle slot? If you set it on the top wood, did you notice a difference in sound?I
Good job by the way👍
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  #11  
Old 01-04-2020, 03:33 PM
ba4x ba4x is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaptonWannabe2 View Post
IF you are good enough to do all of that, you are good enough to change out the entire bridge to something more traditional.

You spent a night or two sanding that Tusq to fit the hole, you have the patience to remove and replace a bridge and saddle.
I appreciate the vote of confidence! Never tried to move a bridge before. I thought routing might be easier. You're right, the sanding took a **** long time. At one point I was whittling to remove chunks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportycliff View Post
Wait, am I missing something?

Maybe it's just the photo or my eyes, but it looks like you lengthened the low e (and a) at the bridge, then shortened it at the nut??

Sorry if I missed something.
You're right. As I understand it, lengthening at the saddle is the typical way to go. But "shortening" at the nut has a similar effect. Essentially, any fretted note was too sharp, and I was trying to counteract that. If you shorten at the nut with a little riser like that, tune up to standard pitch, then fret a note, that note will more flat than without the riser. Not perfect but it's working...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Abrahamson View Post
Great timing on this thread. I'm essentially doing the same thing to an old 70's Bentley. I cut a piece of bone to fit like you did with the tusq.
Did you set it in the slot right on the top wood or did you put a floor in the saddle slot? If you set it on the top wood, did you notice a difference in sound?I
Good job by the way👍
I have the TUSQ sitting directly on the spruce soundboard. I thought it was odd - maybe a rosewood floor would make sense. The tone did change significantly. Although after playing it for a while, I can't tell if it's any better or worse. Since the soundboard is typically curved, there's no way the TUSQ is making perfect contact. Thanks and good luck with your Bentley! Post photos if you get there.
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