The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 02-15-2020, 05:53 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuki79 View Post
Send me the recordings (pm + google drive link or dropbox link). I'll try my algorithm, maybe it will give a different result.
Cuki I will send you the wave files when I can and you can try it with your algorithm. The thing with the Anthem is that low end mud that I don't like. I can EQ it out afterward no problem. I also tried to put the same EQ curve when I exported the wav file but that seemed to make little difference. I will say this though, the HFN works like magic with Jon's algorithm. I even used the Anthem with the HFN IR and it sounded miles better. I only just scratched the surface with this. My problem right now is time. I can't wait to try the Soloist as well as that pickup has amazing string separation.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 02-15-2020, 05:58 PM
caballero59 caballero59 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 62
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuki79 View Post
Send me the recordings (pm + google drive link or dropbox link). I'll try my algorithm, maybe it will give a different result.
Cuki, how do the results from your algorithm differ qualitatively from Jons?
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 02-16-2020, 03:05 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: France
Posts: 3,005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
The thing with the Anthem is that low end mud that I don't like. I can EQ it out afterward no problem.
Finite Impulse Response filter is not the best for low-end. A parametric EQ or low-shelf EQ (Infinite Impulse response filter) is much more efficient.
__________________
Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 02-16-2020, 03:07 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: France
Posts: 3,005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by caballlero59 View Post
Cuki, how do the results from your algorithm differ qualitatively from Jons?
Doug Young posted some recordings recently

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...3&postcount=12

I think it was my standard process (not the one with the Jon Fields mod).
__________________
Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 02-16-2020, 02:03 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuki79 View Post
Finite Impulse Response filter is not the best for low-end. A parametric EQ or low-shelf EQ (Infinite Impulse response filter) is much more efficient.
Yes, I was using Fabfilter Pro Q2, which is an awesome EQ plugin. I tried a few different things with it including a low shelf. I should've mentioned that I used the Anthem set to full mic with the element of course handling the low end, which is not recommended training with Tonedexter for examples, maybe the same rules apply to the algorithm. I don't expect to have any issues using full UST, but my hopes were to be able to get a good IR with the Anthem set the way I did. At the end of the day I don't consider myself an Anthem user so I won't be upset if it doesn't work out.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 02-16-2020, 09:11 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 4,598
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
Yes, I was using Fabfilter Pro Q2, which is an awesome EQ plugin. I tried a few different things with it including a low shelf. I should've mentioned that I used the Anthem set to full mic with the element of course handling the low end, which is not recommended training with Tonedexter for examples, maybe the same rules apply to the algorithm. I don't expect to have any issues using full UST, but my hopes were to be able to get a good IR with the Anthem set the way I did. At the end of the day I don't consider myself an Anthem user so I won't be upset if it doesn't work out.
My IR algorithm is simply the math I've described in previous posts. Other than decent volume matching, no clipping, and reasonable SNR, I've made no other assumptions other than the standard IR/FIR linear, time invariant, and finite. Magnetic pickups trained in open position with the expectation that it will be only useful in open position might work fine. A Baggs Session intentionally distorts and won't work.

There is nothing about a mic that violates the assumptions for my code, but it still might work better with the UST alone.

One thing to consider, I made no provisions in my code for portability to a stompbox (the IR is portable, the IR generator is not). I am freely using all the arithmetic precision a PC or Mac has to offer (double precision floating point). At several steps in my process the math has to have sufficient resolution to accurately express 131,072 unique sine and cosine values between 0 and 2*pi. No way that is going to end up on a stompbox fixed point bit DSP running out of some tiny amount of memory. I should hesitate so say "my process" as the code is, except for half a dozen lines looking for near zeros in the pickup FFT, essentially right out of a textbook.

This kind of arithmetic overkill allows me to avoid a lot of problems that might need tough to debug complicated solutions (careful selection of where in the input sample to process, post IR EQ to reduce bass resonances, low cut and high cut filtering...), which can make for a more restrictive product.

Give it try let know how you make out!
__________________
jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator
.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs
IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
My duo's website and my email... [email protected]

Jon Fields

Last edited by jonfields45; 02-17-2020 at 07:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 02-17-2020, 09:40 AM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
My IR algorithm is simply the math I've described in previous posts. Other than decent volume matching, no clipping, and reasonable SNR, I've made no other assumptions other than the standard IR/FIR linear, time invariant, and finite. Magnetic pickups trained in open position with the expectation that it will be only useful in open position might work fine. A Baggs Session intentionally distorts and won't work.

There is nothing about a mic that violates the assumptions for my code, but it still might work better with the UST alone.

One thing to consider, I made no provisions in my code for portability to a stompbox (the IR is portable, the IR generator is not). I am freely using all the arithmetic precision a PC or Mac has to offer (double precision floating point). At several steps in my process the math has to have sufficient resolution to accurately express 131,072 unique sine and cosine values between 0 and 2*pi. No way that is going to end up on a stompbox fixed point bit DSP running out of some tiny amount of memory. I should hesitate so say "my process" as the code is, except for half a dozen lines looking for near zeros in the pickup FFT, essentially right out of a textbook.

This kind of arithmetic overkill allows me to avoid a lot of problems that might need tough to debug complicated solutions (careful selection of where in the input sample to process, post IR EQ to reduce bass resonances, low cut and high cut filtering...), which can make for a more restrictive product.

Give it try let know how you make out!
Jon,

I literally just scratched the surface with this so far. Time is my enemy right now. I'm hoping to hit this hard on my next days off (as long as the wife and kids leave me alone!). The Anthem never was (and never will be) my favorite pickup but I think with enough experimenting I can manage to get an IR that doesn't require any EQ, at least for my taste. The HFN IR's I made so far with your process sound amazing.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 02-17-2020, 02:29 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 4,598
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
Jon,

I literally just scratched the surface with this so far. Time is my enemy right now. I'm hoping to hit this hard on my next days off (as long as the wife and kids leave me alone!). The Anthem never was (and never will be) my favorite pickup but I think with enough experimenting I can manage to get an IR that doesn't require any EQ, at least for my taste. The HFN IR's I made so far with your process sound amazing.
I'm glad it's working for you!
__________________
jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator
.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs
IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
My duo's website and my email... [email protected]

Jon Fields
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 02-18-2020, 10:28 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 4,598
Default

GuitarLuva commented in the Carbon Fiber section:

"Also, take a look at Jon's last post. His IR sounds fantastic with the HFN. I used his IR on my Godin Metropolis with HFN and got amazing results. His IR (IMO) gives more of the mic character and a fuller sound compared to the normal Tonedexter training. I tested it in a DAW first and was so happy with it that I copied it over in a Tonedexter slot. I really plan on exploring his IR with more guitars and pickup combos when I get the time. I suggest you give it a try!"
__________________
jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator
.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs
IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
My duo's website and my email... [email protected]

Jon Fields
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 02-20-2020, 08:04 AM
rb1591 rb1591 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 435
Default Question re: compatibility with original Fishman Blender

Can your IRs be loaded into the original Fishman Blender? Yeah, it may be ancient technology, but IMO, there is so much to like in that product, and I've heard it sound wonderful with the right image/pickup.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 02-20-2020, 12:32 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 4,598
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rb1591 View Post
Can your IRs be loaded into the original Fishman Blender? Yeah, it may be ancient technology, but IMO, there is so much to like in that product, and I've heard it sound wonderful with the right image/pickup.
As far as I know, the Fishman IR format is proprietary and there is no conversion program that has been reverse engineered and published. Also some of the posts about the Blender indicate it is probably only a 1024 length IR, which is probably adequate. I agree it has a lot of other useful features.
__________________
jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator
.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs
IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
My duo's website and my email... [email protected]

Jon Fields
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 02-20-2020, 12:54 PM
rb1591 rb1591 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 435
Default

Thanks, Jon. That was the answer I was expecting. At the time lots of folks seemed to find the Blender overly complicated, but I really liked the way it operated … its simple compressor settings, ability to step through profiles, feedback eliminator, super-rugged build, and tuner. And, as I said with the right pickup and profile (judiciously used), it could sound great.

Fishman, if you're reading this …
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 02-20-2020, 01:03 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: France
Posts: 3,005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
As far as I know, the Fishman IR format is proprietary and there is no conversion program that has been reverse engineered and published. Also some of the posts about the Blender indicate it is probably only a 1024 length IR, which is probably adequate. I agree it has a lot of other useful features.
Fishman Aura uses probably 2048 pts IR.

Read:

https://www.eetimes.com/acoustic-gui...reated-by-dsp/
__________________
Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 02-25-2020, 11:55 AM
63telemaster 63telemaster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 183
Default

I hope to try this when I have some spare time next week but I'm a bit worried about this part of the instructions....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post

Place your guitar pickup/mic recordings in the same directory as my script, jf45ir.m

After installing Octave, run the GUI version. Change the current directory to the one in which you placed my script and your recordings. If your recording is called mgit.wav, for example, then type the following in the Octave command window:

jf45ir('mgit')

Octave will then generate three files, two IRs plus a frequency plot of the 100% IR.

jf45irmgit.wav
jf45ir5050mgit.wav
FFTjf45irmgit.jpg
Any chance of posting a couple of screen shots to help ease us less tech savvy types through the process?
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 02-25-2020, 12:11 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: France
Posts: 3,005
Default

You can also send us your recordings via dropbox or google drive and we will make the IR files for you. (pm me or Jon)
__________________
Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=