The Fermi Paradox

[Cecil6243]

Originally Posted by AndreF

I believe there is a high probability of extraterrestrial life. I think the lack of evidence may largely be due to our limited abilities to detect it.
As technology develops, we'll be able to chip away at those limitations.
I'm very excited about the new James Webb telescope from NASA to this effect.
So, stay tuned! I think this piece of hardware may help us move the needle quite a bit forward with respect to our detection capabilities.
Space is so vast. It's quite a task.

Hopefully no SNAFU like there was with the Hubble Telescope.

[Cecil6243]

So there are estimated to be hundreds of billons of galaxies in the universe, each galaxy has 100 to 400 billion stars, and most stars have planets, I would say the odds of other life or even intelligent life out there are pretty high.

That said using an equation to calculate how many with out any known values seems ludicrous to me.

[joe white]

Alright,
I can't take it anymore.

I have to confess.

I'm not from here.

I was sent here long ago to mix in, mingle and report back.

Unfortunately, I forgot where I parked my ship so I'm stranded here until I can find it. (I just hope I remember where I hid the keys too) Anyway, all I can say about you earthlings is you are one messed up species and I can't wait to get back to my home planet.

Joe;

Can you turn dirt into gold? Or predict the stock market? If so, give me a call and maybe I can help find your ship.

[tinnitus]

Assuming that lifeforms from somewhere else near or far might be even remotely the same size/shape we are (with bodies, heads, eyes, limbs, etc.) might be a little arrogant on our part. Who believes we're even equipped to sense/recognize intelligent life in our midst - on any scale?

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by tinnitus

... Who believes we're even equipped to sense/recognize intelligent life in our midst - on any scale?

The older I get, the more I appreciate the profundity of this observation - with my own species, no less...

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by Cecil6243

So there are estimated to be hundreds of billons of galaxies in the universe, each galaxy has 100 to 400 billion stars, and most stars have planets, I would say the odds of other life or even intelligent life out there are pretty high.

That said using an equation to calculate how many with out any known values seems ludicrous to me.

+1. The numbers of stars and galaxies is overwhelming difficult to comprehend with our human mind. So are the incredibly vast distances. Just think, Andromeda has 1 trillion stars although I think that's on the larger scale of a galaxy's size.

Our Milky Way galaxy is 100,000 light years across. It would take a long time for a civilization to visit all the stars.

[Mbroady]

“The universe is a pretty big place. If it's just us, seems like an awful waste of space.”
― Carl Sagan,

I believe 100% that there is/was sentient life out there. I also believe that any intelligent life out there, that is both physically and intellectually capable of technological advancement, follows a trajectory similar to ours. That being, once we are capable destroying our selves we eventually do. Unfortunately it will happen before we are capable of interstellar travel or communication. Hence why we have not had contact

Then again who knows what secrets of the government hides from us

[buddyhu]

Having studied a bit of probability theory, it seems entirely possible to me that the paradox resides in the assumptions underlying the estimates. Any estimate of the likelihood of ANYTHING makes some significant assumptions about the way the world (or universe) “works”. Those assumptions might not be true…though they have been useful for spurring important and useful discoveries anout many things here on this planet. But they may have their limits in applicability.

Who is to say that we would recognize intelligent life? There are parts of a dolphin’s brain that are larger than our human brains…often, the parts that are larger in dolphins are the parts of the human brain that are larger than chimpanzee brains. But little credence is given to the possibility that dolphins are intelligent, let alone intelligent in ways that humans are not. And chimps are treated as very much lesser creatures than humans, and no one thinks they deserve much respect for their intelligence. It is assumed that they need not be given respect. Indeed, most humans think they are more refined or more moral, or that they have keener insight than most of their human brethren. Talk about narcissism getting in the way of seeing and valuing what is in front of us!

So, perhaps no paradox at all. Just human grandiosity on display. Again.

[TRose]

I believe there is intelligent life beyond our little blue marble.

Anyone familiar with the government and military documents that were declassified early this year:

https://www.livescience.com/cia-decl...-archives.html


?!

[TRose]

Originally Posted by Dru Edwards

"The Fermi paradox, named after Italian-American physicist Enrico Fermi, is the apparent contradiction between the lack of evidence for extraterrestrial life and various high estimates for their probability " (source: Wikipedia).



There are lots of reasons presented attempting to solve this paradox, such as perhaps civilizations never achieve interstellar exploration because some "great filter" prohibits civilizations from advancing after they split the atom, such as nuclear war.



Your thoughts on the Fermi Paradox? How about the Drake Equation, which attempts to provide the number of civilizations that may exist.?

Dru,
I was unfamiliar with the Fermi Paradox. Thanks for the introduction.
Cheers,
Tom

[Jack the Pearl]

I must remember that an acoustic guitar forum is a good place to find a long rambling discussion about alien life.

Who would have guessed?

[Silurian]

Originally Posted by tinnitus

Assuming that lifeforms from somewhere else near or far might be even remotely the same size/shape we are (with bodies, heads, eyes, limbs, etc.) might be a little arrogant on our part. Who believes we're even equipped to sense/recognize intelligent life in our midst - on any scale?

Any technological civilisation is likely to share certain physiological traits with human beings. At the very least, sensory organs similar to eyes, some method of moving (limbs or similar) and most importantly some kind of appendages similar to hands. You can't build a technological civilisation without the ability to make and use tools.

There are other species that appear to have a relatively high degree of intelligence (although how intelligence is defined is subject to debate) but there isn't another species that comes anywhere close to the naked primate with the apposable thumbs.

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by TRose

Dru,
I was unfamiliar with the Fermi Paradox. Thanks for the introduction.
Cheers,
Tom

Tom, it's an interesting paradox and there are some great responses here and an interesting read. It's a great intro.

[roberts]

I have nothing to add, just jumped on this thread to get smarter....