Metronome - to use or not?

[JoeStrummer]

I was watching an interview with Keith Richards on Youtube. He was asked about what he thought about using a metronome for guitar practice. He didn't sound very impressed. He explained that he usually plays either slightly behind or slightly ahead of the beat. His advice was that if you use a metronome then learn to play around it rather than exactly with it. Just curious what the experienced players out there thought of this advice?

[rick-slo]

I have hardly ever used one. I have a good sense of tempo and maintaining it. However I can see how it could be useful
for practicing and building up speed on scales and such. Also if you are called upon to use a click track I can see how using
one now and then could be helpful.

[Allman_Fan]

You have to keep in mind there are two (general) types of players that read and respond to this forum: solo players and ensemble players. And surely there are some who do both, especially those who practice quite a bit by themselves, but their goal is playing with others. Also, I'm not sure if this distinction matters much, but some of the solo players play guitar only and some use the guitar to accompany their voices.

I think the different responses you get may have something to do with the different goals.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I practiced with a drum machine a bit, but not much. I did learn/play a bunch to records which had a whole rhythm sections. But even then, I played by myself quite a bit, too. I think it might be easier to learn how to play "off the beat" if you HAVE a beat.

I think it makes more "sense" to average listener if there IS a beat. Some of that stuff Keith plays by himself as an intro just sounds wrong, but when he does a similar thing at the beginning of the subsequent verses (with the rest of the band playing) makes me realize "OK, now I get it."

[Aaron Smith]

If your goal is to improve your timing and make your playing faster, cleaner, and more accurate, then I haven't found anything better than rehearsing with a metronome. Not a lot of fun, but in my experience very effective.
Do an experiment- record yourself playing with a metronome, at a speed slower than you usually play. Play as well as you can possibly play. Then go back and listen to the recording. If you've never done it before and you have a critical ear, you are likely to hear a lot of things you don't like; wavering tempo, clunker notes, squeaky strings, etc.

[jayhawk]

With Keith Richards, I would consider the source....

I will say that I have the Pete Huttlinger DVD on better practicing and he is very firm on believing that practicing with a metronome is important.

So I guess it is really question of who you think gives you the best advise for achieving the kind of style you want.

Jack

[shawlie]

I am happy I bought a metronome and use it all the time. I wish I didn't need it, though, but it is useful for me. I agree with Aaron Smith - playing with a metronome on a slow setting can really throw a person off, it shows me how poorly I play some things.

I think that things flow better without a metronome, at least for me. But nerves and lack of ability make it hit and miss without one (when I record things) - the tempo is just too different during the song (speed up during the parts that make me nervous, just to get them out of the way or something).

For fun I never use it, to actually practice, I use it often. I think they are tricky things.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Aaron Smith

If your goal is to improve your timing and make your playing faster, cleaner, and more accurate, then I haven't found anything better than rehearsing with a metronome...

I agree. Setting "faster" aside the moment, it is a boon to one's musicianship to internalize the beat. The discipline of working with a metronome will help you find that pocket when performing.

[Cue Zephyr]

A definite yes. I used to play very far beind or ahead of the beat, and had a slightly inconsistent rhythm. After getting a metronome and practising with it a couple of times (with both my guitar and my cajon), and it has improved since. Since I also want to get into some simple bass guitar playing exactly bang on te beat is essential.

[Brian W.]

Originally Posted by JoeStrummer

I was watching an interview with Keith Richards on Youtube. He was asked about what he thought about using a metronome for guitar practice. He didn't sound very impressed. He explained that he usually plays either slightly behind or slightly ahead of the beat. His advice was that if you use a metronome then learn to play around it rather than exactly with it. Just curious what the experienced players out there thought of this advice?

I'll write about 75% of a song without a metronome and then use one toward the end to even things out a bit. For me, it's difficult to use one during the composing process because it can force me out of a creative idea. Sometimes it's necessary to step off the rhythm to find new stuff and then bring it back to the anvil for reshaping.

It's helpful to record a trail run at an optimum tempo for recording purposes. Listen back to it over the course of a few days to determine if it feels too slow, too fast, or just right. Use that optimum tempo to get the beat rooted in your head just before final tracking.

And then there are a few situations where the metro will actually steer me into a melody. Reels would be a good example—need that consistent beat to lead the way.

[JoeStrummer]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

With Keith Richards, I would consider the source....

What are you trying to say - is he too good/bad/polished/sloppy to need one? Or what?

[Explorer]

I've heard metronome players who could go from being perfectly in time to then adding nuance to their timing.

I've never heard non-metronome players spontaneously gain the ability to play in perfect time.

I've heard many arguments from non-users that claim using one robs one of the ability to use expressive timing, and they argue against metronome use because it robs "spontaneity." If one cannot play in time to begin with, then I always wonder how one can control how "expressive" one actually is by choice, and how much one is just doing the best one can.

If one wants to play in time with or against timekeeping devices (including other musicians and drummers), then one has to practice that. Knowing how to play ahead of or behind the beat to change the feel is another skill one cannot gain without using something to generate that beat.

Richards played with Bill Wyman and Charlie Watts for years, with them generating the beat he acknowledges playing against. Is he mentally flexible enough to realise that he was using the rhythm section for a steady rhythm? It sounds like he doesn't know that one can use a metronome if there's no band members to play against, which is a little humorous and a little sad. I'd be interested in the interview, but it's hard to believe Keith Richards is really so clueless about rhythm sections in a band, or so unable to think his point through regarding his own practices with timekeeping and music.

Then again, if it is a lack of thought (or inability to think clearly) that's to blame, and considering the lifestyle he's led, perhaps that's what's meant by having to consider the source....

[JoeStrummer]

This is the link for the interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LJSi3yaHrU

[bluesbassdad]

Originally Posted by Explorer

I've heard metronome players who could go from being perfectly in time to then adding nuance to their timing.

I've never heard non-metronome players spontaneously gain the ability to play in perfect time.

I've heard many arguments from non-users that claim using one robs one of the ability to use expressive timing, and they argue against metronome use because it robs "spontaneity." If one cannot play in time to begin with, then I always wonder how one can control how "expressive" one actually is by choice, and how much one is just doing the best one can.


[snip]

+1

Your post reminds me of golfers who can hook or slice at will but can't hit a ball straight.

[oldhippiegal]

I can count myself as experienced as guitar is my third instrument. If I don't use one, I almost always speed up slowly over the course of a song. I prefer the sort that flash a light at me.

Also, when doing something difficult and new, I found it useful to half the recommended BPM, learn it there and slowly make up the difference once I got the piece.

[Aaron Smith]

One other thing- if you ever plan to record, you will need to have experience with a metronome. Trying to record along to a click track without practice is infuriating. Usually people can play well, or play in time- but not both together.