NOW WITH DEMOS!!!: Trance Amulet M-VT Phantom & Martin HD-28 Installation

[SpruceTop]

I do hear a bit of digital distortion in parts of the demos from Normalizing each demo in Audacity to bring them up to a level of -1 dB for a good listening level. It's best when making digital recordings to keep all recording levels everywhere in the process to -6 dB or less to keep the hard digital distortion artifacts out of the final demo. Maybe this digital distortion is what Cuki is hearing as treble annoyances in the demos? Perhaps, I'll redo the post-processing of my recordings to keep the Normalization to -6 dB to make the demos cleaner sounding without digital distortion.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Cuki, are you using the clamp to find the best pressure point on each Amulet that will yield the best tone? I don't understand why you're having to reinstall the Amulets several times when all you have to do is locate them where Trance recommends to put them per their drawing. Then, supposedly using the clamp, you can find the best pressure point on the Amulet that will generate the best tone. If anything, you can optionally locate each Amulet about 1mm to 2mm outward from being exactly centered over each group of three strings. One of the Trance drawings shows a slightly outward location of the bass Amulet.

Yes I did. Got slightly better result, I still needed the tone pot to achieve usable tone.

I'm hearing the Martin HD-28/Trance Amulet M-VT Phantom combination as capturing the overall slight darkness of the HD-28's tone. If you're hearing some kind of weird treble artifacts [...] Also, likely these artifacts wouldn't be noticeable with 10 to 50 feet of air between a loudspeaker and a listener's ears.

Those are not artifacts. When I generate an IR to correst it I can clearly see the correction on the IR spectrum. If it is there and not in the mic track it's not digital.

I think from now on, any demos I post will be EQ'ed, and as the phrasing usually goes, with a little added reverb to give it some air so as to start on a similar footing to most other demos out there. Maybe I'll even mic a loudspeaker instead of demoing the raw pickup tone into Audacity?

I think it's unfair to use EQ, reverb and loudspeaker because... none of those will be the same for other users. The raw pickup should always be here as a reference as in Doug Young's website.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I think it's unfair to use EQ, reverb and loudspeaker because... none of those will be the same for other users. The raw pickup should always be here as a reference as in Doug Young's website.

I agree but then I don't get to use the "I added a little reverb for air" phrase.

[Cuki79]

Ken, would you mind doing something for me please?

Could you unplug the two sensors from the preamp and record them thanks to 2 minijack to 6.35" jack adapter into a 2-channel interface and send me the 2 tracks via a google drive or dropbox link?

It would provide me a "compass".

Here is one of the install I did this week

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Ken, would you mind doing something for me please?

Could you unplug the two sensors from the preamp and record them thanks to 2 minijack to 6.35" jack adapter into a 2-channel interface and send me the 2 tracks via a google drive or dropbox link?

It would provide me a "compass".

Here is one of the install I did this week

Your sample sounds good. I don't want to undo my Trance system as I've got it all nicely routed inside the guitar and won't need to touch it again.

I'd continue to work with the red tape especially if you can get more. I finally decided to use epoxy because it seems to yield consistent results that can also be heard in the Larrivee C-03 TE demos. The only criticism I have about using the epoxy is that it yields a lot of bass response (YAY!) but it can be easily EQ'ed to taste, which I haven't yet demoed. My thinking is that it's better to have a good bass response from the guitar/pickup/preamp source and EQ it to taste rather than trying to add bass to a weak bass source signal. This is my current concern with the Ultra Tonic 3.2 which for whatever reason seems to have a low bass response. I'm trying to adjust the DIP switch circuit board to give me more bass but something tells me it may be a futile quest if I somehow botched the installation of the two sensors. I'm going to try a few more DIP switch settings to try to get more bass out of the Ultra Tonic.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Scott, thanks for listening! My problem with the Ultra Tonic 3.2 is that I don't hear the clear and full bass that I hear with the Trance system. I hear a lot of mid-range in the Ultra Tonic. To be sure, the Martin D-18, although it has the deep bass fundamentals, is a brighter-sounding guitar than the HD-28, and at least this brightness is being captured by the Ultra Tonic. I'm willing to come to the realization that although I've managed to locate the two pickup sensors of the Ultra Tonic perfectly on the bridge plate per installation instructions, perhaps I botched the application of the epoxy to the sensors? I found the long thin main sensor is difficult to hold on to when reaching in the guitar as it wants to flip off the fingertips, which it did twice. I reapplied a bit of epoxy, spread it around, and finally got the sensor properly located well within the time window for the setup of the epoxy. I can't imagine using superglue with its much shorter time window of opportunity for application to the bridge plate for installation of the main sensor and bass sensor.

If the Ultra Tonic 3.2 doesn't work out for me after more adjustments of the DIP switches, I'm hoping I can extract the system from the Martin D-18 without harming the Martin's bridgeplate. Frankly, I wouldn't care if I destroy the Ultra Tonic 3.2 in the process as long as the Martin makes it through okay.

I think what I have come to realize is that all pickups have their own signature tone and if I hear something that I don't like, it's very, very hard to ignore it. I would say the two that bother me the most are the Amulet and Anthem. With the Anthem, the tru-mic has this weird hollow, midrange, thinness to it that I just can't dial out. I also hear it in every demo video. Oddly enough, I don't mind the Lyric, but I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the Anthem is set up for the tru-mic to capture the highs and the Element to capture the lows. It would be amazing if down the road, Lr baggs would release a version where the tru-mic was covering the whole tonal spectrum with the Element providing bass. Just something to make the tru-mic sound a bit more full.

With regards to the Amulet, there's this odd piezo quality to it that reminds me of a UST. It's so hard to put into words, but when you would do single note lines and slide from note to note, that quality really came out. What I found is that with aggressive strumming, the Amulet stopped sounding natural and became very piezo driven.

Much like Cuki, I tried at least 7-8 installations of the Amulet and never found one that made the high end sound full. I used the jig twice and then kind of tried random spots and it never improved. In fact, the HFN had a much more full tone in the high end, I just couldn't get a big enough bass from it.

I have also found that certain systems will sound great at low settings, but not as good once they are at gig volumes. The Amulet and Anthem suffer from this issue IMO. Now I am not saying that the Ultra tonic/K&K is a better sounding/more natural pickup and they both have that signature K&K tone, but I just don't find them to be as offensive to my ears. There's a woodier quality that sounds like a nice, full acoustic guitar. If I had the choice, I would probably go K&K over Ultra tonic as I could eq it the way I want without worrying about the dip switches.

I think the one pickup that I would love to hear in comparison is the Dazzo. I kind of see it as the middle ground. It has more high end and clarity that you get from the Amulet, but the tone is a bit more woody like you would get from the K&K.. if that makes sense!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Ken, would you mind doing something for me please?

Could you unplug the two sensors from the preamp and record them thanks to 2 minijack to 6.35" jack adapter into a 2-channel interface and send me the 2 tracks via a google drive or dropbox link?

I could try to do that for you with one of my Trance installs. It'd be easiest to just unplug each side leaving the other running thru the Trance end-pin, tho. Would that work for you?

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I could try to do that for you with one of my Trance installs. It'd be easiest to just unplug each side leaving the other running thru the Trance end-pin, tho. Would that work for you?

That would be great!

Will email you.

Thanks
Cuki

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Ken, would you mind doing something for me please?

Could you unplug the two sensors from the preamp and record them thanks to 2 minijack to 6.35" jack adapter into a 2-channel interface and send me the 2 tracks via a google drive or dropbox link?

It would provide me a "compass".

Here is one of the install I did this week

That's the tone I would always get from my Amulet installations. It's that stringy, hi-fi tone that just lacks the warmth/body that I like.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

That's the tone I would always get from my Amulet installations. It's that stringy, hi-fi tone that just lacks the warmth/body that I like.

Thanks Petty! I feel less alone!

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

People: Push the volume up on your headphones, the Amulet sounds nice at very low volume but with an amp, you will push the volume harder... Then you'd notice as your ear response changes (see Fletcher–Munson curves) that the highs are problematic.

Cuki, with further listerning I can hear a "ringing" whenever I hit the 1st string/3rd fret note as in a G chord. I'll look into this when I have the time. Thanks for pointing this out to me. More to come ...

[SpruceTop]

Thank Goodness that the ringing in the recordings isn't Trance Amulet M-VT Phantom related! The ringing or chiming is from the strings when playing fairly aggressively as I can hear it when playing acoustically without being plugged in. There may also be a sympathetic vibration somewhere in the guitar, and I'll check that to see if something is loose. Although they sound good, the strings are the original strings that Martin factory-installed over a year ago so maybe it's time to change them, ay?

P.S. My Martin D18, with the Trance or Schatten HFN installed, and judging from my recordings has (had) that same acoustic string-ring as the Martin HD-28. The current strings on the Martin D-18 are only a week old. So, it's a combination of my playing style, and maybe my Guitar Moose .88 mm Classic pick. I'll try my Charmed Life .035" inch thick Vespel and Blue Chip TD35 teardrop picks to hear if they lessen that string ring thing.

[SpruceTop]

I'm plugged in right now with the Trance's onboard Tone control adjusted by ear and let me once again state I love this combination of a Martin HD-28 with Trance Amulet M-VT Phantom through my LR Baggs Synapse. The Martin HD-28/Trance M-VT Phantom should sound good through any PA system or acoustic amp. Any version of the Trance Amulet M-VT (phantom- or battery-powered) will sound good using my installation method but it must be the M-VT option to harness the system's powerful output for interfacing with the input of any device be it an amp, mixer, or recording device.

[guitaniac]

Sounds good to me, Ken. It may be a little bright for my taste, but I suspect it would be a lot easier to dial in (with EQ) than the iBeam in my D28 or the Lyric in my Samick medium jumbo.

I finally did get the iBeam dialed in, but it was a tedious project. Your pickup has a much more pleasing starting sound to work with.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Sounds good to me, Ken. It may be a little bright for my taste, but I suspect it would be a lot easier to dial in (with EQ) than the iBeam in my D28 or the Lyric in my Samick medium jumbo.

Thanks, Gary! What you're hearing are the original direct-to-computer demos I made with this rig back in January 2022. The Trance Tone Control is wide open at the Treble end of its range which gives full-spectrum tone with a strong steel-string-brashness ring. When playing today through the LR Baggs Synapse, all I did was roll the Trance's Tone Control closer to its Bass end to bring the highs/lows/and midrange more in balance for a smoother-sounding more natural acoustic tone. Today's playing was done straight into my Synapse via a 46-foot XLR cable (two cables connected together) for the phantom powering of the Trance from the Synapse. The reason I posted today is just to remark on how good the Martin/Trance rig sounds over a loudspeaker system using only the Trance's onboard Tone control with the Synapse set with Flat EQ. l need to make more direct-to-computer demos of the Martin HD-28/Trance Amulet M-VT Phantom combo with the onboard Tone Control set at its near-bass end of travel as I have it set for today's playing.