Big Apple, the guitar shop sticks

[@lagatrix]

I'm a 57 year old Native New Yorker. I know, like in all big cities, things change (I tell people when it comes up, I was born about seven New Yorks ago). There's a lot I could complain about in the twists and turns the Naked City has made in the last half century or so, but I'll stay on topic: why is it that in this town; more than twice the size of the next biggest metropolis in the US; with one of the most storied musical histories in the world, let alone this country; with probably the greatest accumulation of wealth per cubic foot of any place on earth; there are so few fine guitar shops?!?!

Yes, gentrification. As a lifelong visual artist, I know a bit about this. I also know that as expensive as it is, there are five boroughs, all of which have pockets of comparatively cheap commercial rents—and musicians would hop on a subway or four, if it was worth it (or a ferry... anyone still remember Mandolin Bros. on Staten Island?).

Yes, there are a few gems. TR Crandall and Retrofret come to mind. But you could put their combined inventory in a corner of one floor of Gruhn's showroom—and Gruhn's of course is not the only saloon in that town . Of course it hasn't always been this way. When I was a kid, I suspect it was the best place in the country to buy a musical instrument of most any kind...

Please forgive the rant, from an aging guitar obsessive, who can't quite understand why I would need to go to Cambridge, MA, or Pittsburgh or Lewiston NH (!) to get my hands on a lot of the finest examples in this region, in this golden age of luthiery.

Grumpily yours,
Ian

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by @lagatrix

I'm a 57 year old Native New Yorker. I know, like in all big cities, things change (I tell people when it comes up, I was born about seven New Yorks ago). There's a lot I could complain about in the twists and turns the Naked City has made in the last half century or so, but I'll stay on topic: why is it that in this town; more than twice the size of the next biggest metropolis in the US; with one of the most storied musical histories in the world, let alone this country; with probably the greatest accumulation of wealth per cubic foot of any place on earth; there are so few fine guitar shops?!?!

Yes, gentrification. As a lifelong visual artist, I know a bit about this. I also know that as expensive as it is, there are five boroughs, all of which have pockets of comparatively cheap commercial rents—and musicians would hop on a subway or four, if it was worth it (or a ferry... anyone still remember Mandolin Bros. on Staten Island?).

Yes, there are a few gems. TR Crandall and Retrofret come to mind. But you could put their combined inventory in a corner of one floor of Gruhn's showroom—and Gruhn's of course is not the only saloon in that town . Of course it hasn't always been this way. When I was a kid, I suspect it was the best place in the country to buy a musical instrument of most any kind...

Please forgive the rant, from an aging guitar obsessive, who can't quite understand why I would need to go to Cambridge, MA, or Pittsburgh or Lewiston NH (!) to get my hands on a lot of the finest examples in this region, in this golden age of luthiery.

Grumpily yours,
Ian

The same reason many of the great music venues went out of business, rent per square foot became astronomical. Now with online sales, having a store front in the big apple is just not financially viable. There are a few exceptions.

We are about the same age (i'm 60) and back in the 70s,80s, and 90s NYC was a mecca for great guitar shops. I am thankful to have experienced it

[LAPlayer]

As stated, retail rent is too high on products that have lower profit margins. Couple that with needing 6+ people to run a decent store and 100,000 in inventory. It's a tough road.

[b1j]

Terminal Music (49th St?) in 1978. One of a dozen within a couple of blocks. Walls lined with guitars. Overstock in the back. Hive of activity. I spent a few hours getting down to my two finalists: a Martin — model unclear now — and a funny OM-sized rosewood beauty by an up and comer named Michael Gurian.

That day was frozen in my eyes for decades afterwards. I just assumed the music store scene remained alive and thriving in midtown. How wrong I was.

[Bob Womack]

I think, perhaps, it is a function of three things:

1. Rising rental costs and taxes - Even well-established studios like Sony packed it in. The 48th Street stores imploded. The thing they were known for, discounts, became impossible to provide.
2. Music business exodus - after 9/11 much of the trade fled the city out of discomfort. I had producer/engineer colleagues telling me how they had built studios in their homes in Connecticut and Upstate NY and were taking their clients there.
3. This is a big one: those who would follow and attempt to build their own stores observed the above and came to consider those factors too large a barrier to break through.

Bob

[fpuhan]

To quote Yogi Berra, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."

[@lagatrix]

All of the above is of course true, especially relevant is the insight that NYC businesses could no longer provide the discounts they were known for.

My wife and I split our time between the city and Upstate (the Catskills), and there has been a massive exodus of creatives of all sorts to within a 3hr radius of NYC, especially places like Kingston, NY. This has, of course, as much to do with the internet as it does with rents in the big city.

All of this said, there are PLENTY of places within an hour or two of NYC with rents as affordable as downtown Nashville. And yet there are so few celebrated shops in this entire region... I guess I just wish someone would see this as business opportunity. This industry is built on people who see the selling of instruments as a labor of love. You don't believe me? If it were just about the money, owners of wonderful guitar shops could save themselves a lot of worry and bother by just opening up a McDonald's franchise.

I'm just sayin' this is one of the wealthiest and most populous regions in the world, and I think one or two more enterprising high end guitar shops could have a good go around here...

[sinistral]

You forgot to mention Rudy’s, which not only is still in business, but decamped to a glitzy space in SoHo. I have no idea how Rudy is able to float that space given the rents in SoHo.

The decline and fall of Music Row on 48th Street is pretty breathtaking—Manny’s, Sam Ash (which is now closing its flagship store on 34th Street), Rudy’s, Terminal Music, Alex Music, Greco’s Custom Guitars, Silver and Horland, New York Woodwind and Brass Shop, and a few others. It was like the Grand Canyon of music stores. And the Village had its own scene. Gurian started his shop there and the guitar Matt Umanov retopped for David Bromberg became a Martin guitar model (the M). Carmine Street Guitars is still there, but almost seems like a curiosity shop.

One wonders how B&H survives, and even thrives. It seems to get bigger each time I visit.

With Sam Ash closing its 34th Street location, that leaves Guitar Center on 14th Street as the only musical instrument megastore. Not sure if you’ve been to Rudy’s in Scarsdale, but it’s actually a nicer store to try out instruments than the SoHo shop.

[jmagill]

This doesn't answer your question about why there aren't more NYC acoustic shops, but as sinistral notes, in addition to Crandall's and Retrofret, there's also Rudy's Music in Soho.

For acoustics, Rudy's website shows 112 Martins, 39 Gibsons, 12 Lowdens, 9 Santa Cruz, 6 Bourgeois, 5 Goodalls, 4 Collings, an amazing 8 D'Angelicos and 7 Monteleones, and a smattering of other guitars by Froggy Bottom, D'Aquisto, de Jonge, Huss & Dalton, Petros, National, Lavoie, Grit Laskin and more.
.

[Bluemonk]

Originally Posted by jmagill

This doesn't answer your question about why there aren't more NYC acoustic shops, but as sinistral notes, in addition to Crandall's and Retrofret, there's also Rudy's Music in Soho.

For acoustics, Rudy's website shows 112 Martins, 39 Gibsons, 12 Lowdens, 9 Santa Cruz, 6 Bourgeois, 5 Goodalls, 4 Collings, an amazing 8 D'Angelicos and 7 Monteleones, and a smattering of other guitars by Froggy Bottom, D'Aquisto, de Jonge, Huss & Dalton, Petros, National, Lavoie, Grit Laskin and more.
.

Rudy's is a great place for a pilgrimage, but they sure don't give their guitars away.

[Mbroady]

Just wanted to add that the Music Zoo in Farmingdale, NY is a decent place to check out. You won’t get the deals of yesteryear but they have a wide selection of mid range guitars and a few tasty higher end samples.

When Mandolin Bros closed the shop to the general public, soon after Stan passed away, it was a sad day for the tri-state guitar playing community. And, the family owned the building.

[@lagatrix]

Originally Posted by Bluemonk

Rudy's is a great place for a pilgrimage, but they sure don't give their guitars away.

Yes, there is Rudy's, with its listed stock spread out between their SoHo and Scarsdale locations. There is some amazing stuff there, but this tends to be hand built jazz oriented guitars. Otherwise their selection is ok. I think their tony locations are reflected in their pricing, and at least when I've visited, I haven't encountered the warmest or most knowledgeable staff (just my experience, YMMV).

[@lagatrix]

Originally Posted by Mbroady

Just wanted to add that the Music Zoo in Farmingdale, NY is a decent place to check out. You won’t get the deals of yesteryear but they have a wide selection of mid range guitars and a few tasty higher end samples.

When Mandolin Bros closed the shop to the general public, soon after Stan passed away, it was a sad day for the tri-state guitar playing community. And, the family owned the building.

Amen to this... Mandolin Brothers was a really special place.

[MidnightPicker]

Originally Posted by sinistral

With Sam Ash closing its 34th Street location, that leaves Guitar Center on 14th Street as the only musical instrument megastore. Not sure if you’ve been to Rudy’s in Scarsdale, but it’s actually a nicer store to try out instruments than the SoHo shop.

Ugh just learned about this, I just got into guitars this year and much preferred this place over GC.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by Mbroady

Just wanted to add that the Music Zoo in Farmingdale, NY is a decent place to check out. You won’t get the deals of yesteryear but they have a wide selection of mid range guitars and a few tasty higher end samples.

When Mandolin Bros closed the shop to the general public, soon after Stan passed away, it was a sad day for the tri-state guitar playing community. And, the family owned the building.

I didn’t mention The Music Zoo in my post above because I assumed that the showroom was still closed. Maybe they have reopened it recently, but the last I heard, The Music Zoo’s showroom (which is/was very nice) has been permanently closed since the pandemic. Apparently their online presence is all they need.

Originally Posted by MidnightPicker

Ugh just learned about this, I just got into guitars this year and much preferred this place over GC.

They are liquidating a lot of the inventory at the store before shifting it to other locations that are staying open (including the store in White Plains), so it might be worth a trip to see what they still have (the announcement was a couple of weeks ago, and I know that it was a madhouse this past weekend).