Too many overtones

[wcap]

I have a cedar/rosewood concert jumbo Goodall. I'm primarily a fingerpicker and play solo mostly (and I don't sing with my guitar), but I also do some flatpicking. For some things this guitar really does go over the top in the overtone department, but for many other things it is simply spectacular sounding. In the situations where this Goodall shines, I could hardly imagine a more spectacular, splendid, perfect, rich, and full tone.

As has been noted above, the overtone issue can be dealt with by technique in many cases. Right hand technique really can make a difference - technique can make all the difference between having the sound dominated by the overtones vs. having a very rich tone with the primary note coming through clearly. I have in past threads likened this guitar to a highly spirited horse whose nature is to run wild and free (and it will do so in the hands of someone who is not experienced with it), but if handled properly it can prance and strut with more elegance and sophistication than the great majority of others.

Also, as noted above, a capo can affect things a lot. I've gotten sort of addicted to putting a capo at the second or third fret for a lot of fingerstyle stuff, and also for some flatpicking, both on my Goodall and on my Martin 000-15. Capoing up like this does some really cool things to the sound of many guitars, and on the Goodall it has the added effect of toning down the overtones. The overtones are still there giving an incredibly rich and full sound, but they don't muddy things up like they sometimes do without the capo.

[random works]

My OO EIR/cedar just moans the overtones. When I pick it up I have to remember: lots of dampening strings to let a few ring out, a light touch, and play a style that sounds good with overtones. So does it have too many overtones? No and yes, according to the player.

[wcap]

Originally Posted by random works

My OO EIR/cedar just moans the overtones. When I pick it up I have to remember: lots of dampening strings to let a few ring out, a light touch, and play a style that sounds good with overtones. So does it have too many overtones? No and yes, according to the player.

Interestingly, with my Goodall, I think what is necessary to emphasize the primary tone (to increase the primary/overtone ratio you might say) is not a light touch exactly, but sort of a sharp attack with good nails - pretty much the same attack that gets the best tone out of my classical.

[wcap]

Here is an example of what one can do with one of these crazy wild-spirited Goodalls if you play it with finesse and exploit its strengths to the fullest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJA6rLHeChU

This guy really makes that guitar sing.

I don't know whether he is using any reverb or anything like that in processing the sound in this recording, but I don't think he would need to do anything like that to get this sound. Though I don't play like this guy (wish I did!), tonally, this is pretty much exactly what my Goodall sounds like in person. It is an almost otherworldly, heavenly, amazing, orchestral sound. When controlled properly, it is absolutely perfect for arrangements like the one in this video clip.

This is probably not the optimal guitar for playing in a bluegrass band though! And as others have noted, it may or may not be the ideal guitar to accompany singing (since I don't play and sing at the same time I really don't know though).

__________________________________________________ __________________
Edit:

Here's what he says about how it was recorded/processed:

"My approach is to record the signal as dry as posible (see all the absorber panels in the background). Afterwards I route the signal through my lexicon pcm80 "small room" preset. Thank you for watching!"

So, sounds like some added reverb. But still the result is very much like what I hear playing my guitar (in a small room).
__________________________________________________ ___________________




By the way...

Can anyone interpret the model code for his guitar for me? What does RJC stand for? Rosewood Jumbo with Cutaway???

This guitar looks like it has a cedar top. Am I correct? Aside from the cutaway this guitar looks pretty much just like mine.

[devellis]

No one guitar is ideal for all playing styles but technique (e.g., distance from the bridge for picking, how long the left hand holds a fretted note, type of pick and attack used, etc.) can go a long way. As a gift to humanity, I don't sing except in the shower or when alone in the car (and rarely then) but I'm playing a few different styles these days (e.g., fingerpicking blues, flatpicking Irish traditional, strumming chords) and I find that most of these will work on most guitars I have, given the proper approach.

For example, my Goodall Grand Concert, in Euoropean spruce over EIR, may not seem like the ideal instrument for fingerpicking country blues but with a capo on the second fret, I find that it works very well when picking with bare fingers. It's a bit too rich for that stuff when uncapoed and using metal figerpicks, however. It has always flatpicked well with the right pick. It can be driven into overtone redolence with certain string/pick/technique combinations, for sure. But I've learned to control that, pretty much without thinking about it. Playing at fairly sedate tempos helps here. So my limitations and those of the instrument may support each other in that respect. I think I probably slow down even below my modest flatpicking ceiling when I'm playing the Goodall as compared with other guitars, and that tempo wouldn't work for bluegrass but I think it suits Irish stuff (even reels, and definitely jigs and hornpipes) just fine.

So, I guess my take on the original question is that some guitars can have too many overtones for certain types of music when played in certain ways, but that even a fairly overtone-rich guitar can cover a lot of ground with a bit of adapting. I think every combination of player/instrument/music/listener is somewhat different and all four jointly determine when there is or isn't too much of any musical characteristic, including overtones.

[stuartb]

Originally Posted by Tony Burns

A trick ive learned with it is capoing the second fret , tuning it down to pitch in DADGAD- plus picking the notes half way between the bridge and the capo - makes it almost dead on for a harp .

Tony,

Could you elaborate on the above so I understand what you're saying.

thanks,

Agree that guitars, like people, have their strengths and weakensses, and you need to learn what songs and genres bring out the best in each guitar.

Stuart

[stuartb]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

On all of my guitars I place felt under the strings behind the nut, and on my archtop I also have felt woven through the strings in front of the tailpiece.

A lot of people don't seem to hear the ringing behind the nut, but it's always stuck out like a sore thumb to my ears. This is especially true when using open tunings due to multiple roots or fifths, etc.

Aside from that I try not to pay attention to my strings when I first put them on, although both my main guitars are maple body and don't have a whole lot of overtones to begin with.

HE

Howard,

Do you have a pic of that so that I can see what you're up to. I dislike overtones on some guitars. Though my Gibson and my Martin have very little in that area (lovely), and the Walker sounds so **** nice that I forgive it.

Stuart

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by wcap

By the way...

Can anyone interpret the model code for his guitar for me? What does RJC stand for? Rosewood Jumbo with Cutaway???

This guitar looks like it has a cedar top. Am I correct? Aside from the cutaway this guitar looks pretty much just like mine.

that would be correct.....RJC, not to be confused with RCJ (rosewood concert jumbo)

I would guess it's a Sitka top, just low lighting making it look darker.

[3 chord]

I think the video clip had some verb going on. That is not what I would associate as just guitar overtones.

Fab u lous playing mind you.

I am starting to think for slow finger picking, overtones are good. For faster runs it can turn into a bit of a mess if the guitar is too lively.

[wcap]

Originally Posted by 3 chord

I think the video clip had some verb going on. That is not what I would associate as just guitar overtones.
.

You are correct about the added reverb (see the edited bit in my post above). But a Goodall in person sounds amazingly like this.


Edit:

I just played that YouTube clip for my daughter, since I like it so much and I thought she'd enjoy it too. Without any prompting, she said "you know, its strange....you don't play that song, but as I listen to it I'm hearing your guitar being played....it sounds just like your playing" When I pointed out that it was pretty much the same guitar as mine it made much more sense to her. Just as Martins have a signature sound, Goodalls have a distinctive sound too (at least all the ones I've encountered in person or in recordings have), and that sound comes through really well in this recording.

[Misifus]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

On all of my guitars I place felt under the strings behind the nut, and on my archtop I also have felt woven through the strings in front of the tailpiece.

A lot of people don't seem to hear the ringing behind the nut, but it's always stuck out like a sore thumb to my ears. This is especially true when using open tunings due to multiple roots or fifths, etc.

Aside from that I try not to pay attention to my strings when I first put them on, although both my main guitars are maple body and don't have a whole lot of overtones to begin with.

HE

Howard, do you also damp the strings above the nut? On my guitars, there's much more free length to ring there.

-Raf

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by stuartb

Howard,

Do you have a pic of that so that I can see what you're up to. I dislike overtones on some guitars. Though my Gibson and my Martin have very little in that area (lovely), and the Walker sounds so **** nice that I forgive it.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,
It's actually quite self-explanatory, but if you look at the home page on my web site you'll see a piece of felt behind the nut on my old L-5 archtop, under the strings. It's a black and white shot so you won't see the felt is green, of course.

Also if you watch most of my videos at some point you'll see the same piece of felt in back of the nut under the strings on my Flammang.

HE

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Misifus

Howard, do you also damp the strings above the nut? On my guitars, there's much more free length to ring there.

-Raf

Raf,
When you say 'above the nut', what are you talking about?

When I say 'in back of the nut', I'm referring to the string area between the tuning posts and the nut, before it reaches the fingerboard.

There are times when I'll even place felt under the strings between the nut and the capo, but only when I'm recording and the capo is at least 3rd fret or higher.

HE

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by wcap

Here is an example of what one can do with one of these crazy wild-spirited Goodalls if you play it with finesse and exploit its strengths to the fullest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJA6rLHeChU

This guy really makes that guitar sing.... When controlled properly, it is absolutely perfect for arrangements like the one in this video clip.....

I liked that -- thanks! I don't think that guitar has too many overtones for my tastes. In fact it sounds quite a bit like my Collings.

Regards, Glenn

[wguitar]

Replied in error - please disregard. Thanks!