Beginner's section for stickied thread

[jim1960]

Edit: I removed this draft because I posted an updated version later in the thread.

[RodB]

Hello Jim,

As you requested - some observations:

I would add a bit to explain that portable recorders such a Sound Devices and higher end Zooms can a) also function as an interface, b) provide good quality that allows sharing, not just personal use.

Also at this level they provide on the one hand more flexibility of recording location, but as you mention have some drawbacks so still require transfer to a DAW to do any serious editing / production.

These higher level Portable recorders / interfaces are available with more that 2 inputs …

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by RodB

Hello Jim,

As you requested - some observations:

I would add a bit to explain that portable recorders such a Sound Devices and higher end Zooms can a) also function as an interface, b) provide good quality that allows sharing, not just personal use.

Also at this level they provide on the one hand more flexibility of recording location, but as you mention have some drawbacks so still require transfer to a DAW to do any serious editing / production.

These higher level Portable recorders / interfaces are available with more that 2 inputs …

Thanks for the response. I'm not going to refer to digital audio recorders as interfaces because I think it would cause unnecessary confusion than help for the beginner, and that's who this page is geared towards. I did, however, add language to reflect that files can be transferred to a computer and then into a daw, and I amended where I wrote "two-channel" to reflect that some devices offer 4 or more.

[Chipotle]

That's a good start. I think the main three categories under "Goals" are good, but it's not just recording quality; ease of use also separates them. You can get studio-quality recordings with a Zoom, external mics, a good room and then post in a DAW, so I'd label the categories "Personal Use/Simple", "Medium Quality/More work", "Higher Quality/More complicated" or something.

One tweak I might make is to not use the term "preamp" right off the bat (or at all, until you get to talking about the higher-end, multi-piece setups). I don't think most newbies will know or care about what a pre-amp is; they just need to know they have a channel they can plug something into. For this guide, you can probably gloss over the fact that some channels on some devices may not actually have a mic preamp; just talk about "mic channels" or "mic inputs", and maybe say that those can be used for direct instruments too.

Also, what interfaces work on a Mac but not a PC? I guess you're talking about USB vs Thunderbolt vs Firewire? I know you're a Mac guy but I think you make PCs sound unnecessarily scary. I'd just say "Make sure your interface has the right connector for your computer (USB, Thunderbolt, Firewire, etc.)".

I'd also argue that a singing guitarist (say, me) doesn't need a 4-preamp interface if they're going to overdub. I'd say "2 preamps is good for a non-singer or a singer who records guitar & vocals separately" and "4 preamps is good if you want stereo guitar and vocals at the same time."

Minor things in the big scheme, nice job getting this started.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

That's a good start. I think the main three categories under "Goals" are good, but it's not just recording quality; ease of use also separates them. You can get studio-quality recordings with a Zoom, external mics, a good room and then post in a DAW, so I'd label the categories "Personal Use/Simple", "Medium Quality/More work", "Higher Quality/More complicated" or something.

I like that.

Originally Posted by Chipotle

One tweak I might make is to not use the term "preamp" right off the bat (or at all, until you get to talking about the higher-end, multi-piece setups). I don't think most newbies will know or care about what a pre-amp is; they just need to know they have a channel they can plug something into. For this guide, you can probably gloss over the fact that some channels on some devices may not actually have a mic preamp; just talk about "mic channels" or "mic inputs", and maybe say that those can be used for direct instruments too.

I'm including a section where I'm defining terms like overdub, punching in, ITB, etc. Preamp will be included there and I'll explain preamp vs line in that description.

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Also, what interfaces work on a Mac but not a PC? I guess you're talking about USB vs Thunderbolt vs Firewire? I know you're a Mac guy but I think you make PCs sound unnecessarily scary. I'd just say "Make sure your interface has the right connector for your computer (USB, Thunderbolt, Firewire, etc.)".

I think I was just being accurate. I'm not an anti-PC guy. I'm typing on this on a PC. I've owned PCs consistently for 30 years. I don't think it's unfair to PCs to mention that not all interfaces will work on PCs.
As for what interfaces, my own, for example: the Avid Carbon doesn't work on PCs.

While we're talking Mac vs PC, I can think of at least two DAWs (Logic Pro and Luna) that won't work on PCs. Are there any DAWs that won't work on Macs?
EDIT: I just looked around and Cakewalk won't work on Macs.

Originally Posted by Chipotle

I'd also argue that a singing guitarist (say, me) doesn't need a 4-preamp interface if they're going to overdub. I'd say "2 preamps is good for a non-singer or a singer who records guitar & vocals separately" and "4 preamps is good if you want stereo guitar and vocals at the same time."

True, but most beginners are afraid of overdubbing. I understand that fear because I had it the first time I recorded in a studio. But I'll add some language to say it's possible on a two-channel recorder.

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Minor things in the big scheme, nice job getting this started.

Thanks. It's been quite a few hours of writing so far.

[Ten]

Originally Posted by jim1960

True, but most beginners are afraid of overdubbing.

Me >>> raises hand >>> child enters adult conversation

This is a good example as where I, as a beginner am. I can play with a click multiple times, but what is your process from there to turn the parts into a whole? And is that specific to input/output/instrumental/vocal/the whole combined track.

Different peoples takes may fall under the different results, but realistically I think I may speak for other beginners in that I go in with low expectations and see what I can do.

I play music. I’d like to listen back to something I played where it sounds good enough to make me smile. I’d like to know out of the 360 degree blinded with options field of view once you have your tracks in Logic what you are thinking and doing, along with key gotchas on the way.

If there are built in affects you use, he’ll yea which ones.

Third party? Ok, but curious ROI vs built in.

I’m not requesting you all document this, I’m just letting you know what I’m doing in google before I ask for your time as someone on this journey.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Ten

Me >>> raises hand >>> child enters adult conversation

This is a good example as where I, as a beginner am. I can play with a click multiple times, but what is your process from there to turn the parts into a whole? And is that specific to input/output/instrumental/vocal/the whole combined track.

Different peoples takes may fall under the different results, but realistically I think I may speak for other beginners in that I go in with low expectations and see what I can do.

I play music. I’d like to listen back to something I played where it sounds good enough to make me smile. I’d like to know out of the 360 degree blinded with options field of view once you have your tracks in Logic what you are thinking and doing, along with key gotchas on the way.

If there are built in affects you use, he’ll yea which ones.

Third party? Ok, but curious ROI vs built in.

I’m not requesting you all document this, I’m just letting you know what I’m doing in google before I ask for your time as someone on this journey.

The thing I'm creating isn't going to cover most of that, but if you go to post #16 of the stickied thread, there are a ton of videos to help you understand all those plugins in your DAW. Keep in mind, while compressors, equalizers, reverbs, and other plugins look different and have different controls, they're all doing what the name implies. Compressors can look very different but they're still compressing.

Also, if you feel like you have too many options, limit your options. The best way to learn what plugins do is to spend time with them. Pick one compressor you already have. Pull up a track, put the compressor on it and spend an hour twisting the knobs and seeing if you can pinpoint what that adjustment is doing. Listen for how it affects the track. Do the same with an eq, a delay, a reverb, etc. Get to know a handful of plugins well and you'll have a sense of what to expect from others of a similar vein.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Another can of worms is the video vs audio only divide. There was a recent thread where the posted wanted to put things up on YouTube and were using their phone but wanted better audio. Should this include the video part, or just focus on recording audio?

I agree with Rudy that maybe segmenting things out into "levels of difficulty" (for lack of a better term) might be the best approach. As in:
1. Phone
2. Phone + external mic
3. Standalone recorder
4. Interface + computer & DAW (or standalone recorder + computer)
5. Learning how to use interface + DAW better (post processing)

So I just tried to think my way through this and I honestly don't know enough about the video end of things to pull it off. Could someone please expand comprehensively on the considerations one needs to make for going down the video rabbit hole? It's either that or I'd have to leave it out.

[AcousticDreams]

After all these years of trying to learn, I discovered the root factor prohibiting me from advancing. I had learned how to record, but not learned the basics from beginning.
Jumping into the middle of game is great motivation. Making a successful recording leads the way. But afterwards, we need to go back and learn the foundations. Any sports adviser will tell you that understanding the foundations are paramount.

Recently it was suggested to me to start with the first episode for Logic Pro from MusicTechHelpGuy video series. At first I thought to myself, I do not need to do that. I already know the basics. Luckily, I did force myself to do this and I am learning so much. I realize now, that I did not really know or completely understand the basics.

Unfortunately, videos never explain everything. They often leave out small steps that they assume you already know how to do. Still, we have to start somewhere. And that somewhere should be the beginning. The only way I can learn, is by making Notes. One page of notes may take me a 45 minutes for one 10 to 15 minute video. But now at least I can easily go back and reference my notes.

My only suggestion would be to provide list of complete courses, that start from the beginning(on the given subject matter). High quality, short and concise, free complete internet youtube videos. Or via hands on tutoring through reasonably priced College recording School Courses( I have heard that there are such courses, but I am not even sure how to find them, and I live close to a college). Paid internet courses I am a bit skeptical on. I appears they can be quite pricey and are not all inclusive. Meaning they want you to continually invest. But then again, I do not even know how to find all of the courses that are being offered. Maybe there are some concise, reasonably prices internet courses?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

My only suggestion would be to provide list of complete courses, that start from the beginning(on the given subject matter). High quality, short and concise, free complete internet youtube videos. Or via hands on tutoring through reasonably priced College recording School Courses( I have heard that there are such courses, but I am not even sure how to find them, and I live close to a college). Paid internet courses I am a bit skeptical on. I appears they can be quite pricey and are not all inclusive. Meaning they want you to continually invest. But then again, I do not even know how to find all of the courses that are being offered. Maybe there are some concise, reasonably prices internet courses?

That's not really what I'm trying to do here. I'm trying to create something that gets a person past the first big leap, the "I don't know what to buy stage."

A tutorial would be a monstrous project for all that it would have to cover. I remember how many hours I put in doing the selection process for the videos already in the stickied thread. Tutorials for every daw would dwarf those hours buy an amount I can't even fathom.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by jim1960

That's not really what I'm trying to do here. I'm trying to create something that gets a person past the first big leap, the "I don't know what to buy stage."

A tutorial would be a monstrous project for all that it would have to cover. I remember how many hours I put in doing the selection process for the videos already in the stickied thread. Tutorials for every daw would dwarf those hours buy an amount I can't even fathom.

Ah, I see now. Yes that will be a big help to starters. I could have certainly used that kind of help when I was first starting.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

So I just tried to think my way through this and I honestly don't know enough about the video end of things to pull it off. Could someone please expand comprehensively on the considerations one needs to make for going down the video rabbit hole? It's either that or I'd have to leave it out.

I can take a crack at this (sort of )

Note first we are talking creating Music Video so audio quality will be a factor

And I think people are going to have both a camera to record and a computer to export/publish video etc...

Note I am trying to offer this in the contest of simpler less pieces of gear to more complex.

# 1 While most smart phones with either 1080 or 4K (even better) are more than enough Video camera to start IMO the built phone Audio quality is from marginal at best (up close) to pretty awful at any distance...

# 2 while there are small USB type mic's that plug directly into a smart phone and they can produce decent audio, the distance is a limiting factor . They like the phone audio also sound much better up close, which means for a solo guitar instrumentalist, it is doable, because you can get the mic usably close to the guitar and have at least the guitar in the video frame ..

#3 But if you are a singing/guitar player, then the phone mounted mic is problematic, because to get decent audio you will likely have to have either the guitar or your face in frame, but not both.

#4 It is possible (if you can find a long enough connection cabe) to have a mic that plugs into a smart phone, mounted on a tripod closer to you for better audio,, and have the phone further away to get both you and the guitar in the frame

Now there may be workable compromises of positioning people are using but these are some considerations

After that you then get into doing the video and audio separately

Next I would guess is portable audio recorders I have no experience with using something like a portable Recorder like Zoom and a smart phone

Then next I would think would be a camera (where still a smart phone a decent option) and a dedicated interface into a computer and a DAW

Jim from this point you can do certainly list the interface and mic options
and I will let the more experienced camera guys talk tiers of camera options

[jim1960]

Okay, I think I can handle the phone and the phone + mic scenarios. Those are easy enough to understand.

Chipotle says the next logical step is standalone recorder. I'm not sure what that is... does he mean a video camera? Wouldn't that present the same problem as a phone?

And where I'm totally lost is how do you take video done on one device and audio recorded through your mics/interface and make them sync up? If someone can describe that process and the software options available, that would probably be enough for me to cover that step.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Okay, I think I can handle the phone and the phone + mic scenarios. Those are easy enough to understand.

Chipotle says the next logical step is standalone recorder. I'm not sure what that is... does he mean a video camera? Wouldn't that present the same problem as a phone?

And where I'm totally lost is how do you take video done on one device and audio recorded through your mics/interface and make them sync up? If someone can describe that process and the software options available, that would probably be enough for me to cover that step.

Actually syncing separate audio to video is pretty easy and there are two basic software options to do so---- and a manual method in the DAW and some dedicated video editing software will do it automatically Note most video cameras also have sound which is the key to syncing

#1 a DAW that will play a video track with and shaw audio from the camera also as a track (which is most of the major DAWs now days)

#2 in a dedicated Video editing program like Final Cut Pro X which can actually automatically sync the Daw audio to the audio from the video camera you just import both and select the auto sync audio function

In the DAW a simple manual sync method is have pre recorded a distinct audible fast transient sound

(Remember the clapper used in old movies showing the filming of movies ? where the guy is in front of camera and clicks or claps the black and white striped ---say 10 in by 12 in wooden two piece board That was to manually sync the audio with the video

(I usually simply count in and click my pick on my guitar body ) I have both the video camera rolling and the audio system recording prior to creating this pre performance count in .

The transient waveform will show up in both the audio system DAW waveform (in the edit window) and in the dual video and sound from the camera .

then you can simply slip the video and its audio waveform to line up vertically with the Audio waveform in the DAW audio using the sharp transient wave forms in both


Make sense ?
If not--- tomorrow I can doe a real quick screen recording of the process

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Actually syncing separate audio to video is pretty easy and there are two basic software options to do so---- and a manual method in the DAW and some dedicated video editing software will do it automatically Note most video cameras also have sound which is the key to syncing

#1 a DAW that will play a video track with and shaw audio from the camera also as a track (which is most of the major DAWs now days)

#2 in a dedicated Video editing program like Final Cut Pro X which can actually automatically sync the Daw audio to the audio from the video camera you just import both and select the auto sync audio function

Thanks. That's helpful.

Originally Posted by KevWind

In the DAW a simple manual sync method is have pre recorded a distinct audible fast transient sound

(Remember the clapper used in old movies showing the filming of movies ? where the guy is in front of camera and clicks or claps the black and white striped ---say 10 in by 12 in wooden two piece board That was to manually sync the audio with the video

(I usually simply count in and click my pick on my guitar body ) I have both the video camera rolling and the audio system recording prior to creating this pre performance count in .

The transient waveform will show up in both the audio system DAW waveform (in the edit window) and in the dual video and sound from the camera .

then you can simply slip the video and its audio waveform to line up vertically with the Audio waveform in the DAW audio using the sharp transient wave forms in both

Ha! I wondered if people did something like that but I thought, "Naa... things must be more high tech than that now."

Originally Posted by KevWind

Make sense ?
If not--- tomorrow I can doe a real quick screen recording of the process

No need. I'm still unsure about that dedicated camera step. I'm guessing it just to improve the visuals. I'll run with that for the meantime and change it later if needed. I'd like to get this thing finished and post a full draft for commentary. It looks like It's going to fill close to three posts. It's long. But I think it's pretty comprehensive and will answer a lot of the most common newbie questions.