Punch-in/comping without a click track?

[DupleMeter]

If you use auto record (set an in/out point & pre/post roll), you’ll be able to hear the track up to the drop in point for however long you set the pre-roll. Then it will drop out of record & continue to play for the length of the post roll.

You don’t technically need a click to do this kind of recording, but the results will vary based on how your natural time is. Another option is to create a tempo map that follows your tempo changes for each section of the piece you’re recording.

[DCCougar]

I usually record a rhythm track first, then play along with that, but I guess a click track would work the same. I keep the tempo constant, at a certain bpm. I've found the trick to cutting and pasting is setting that same bpm in the DAW, and you can move the whole track to the exact start of a measure (if it's not there already). Then when you make a cut, use the snap setting so it cuts right at the start of a beat. I usually make a few takes of each instrument then cut and paste over any crappy parts. Example:

[Jimi2]

Originally Posted by DCCougar

I usually record a rhythm track first, then play along with that, but I guess a click track would work the same. I keep the tempo constant, at a certain bpm. I've found the trick to cutting and pasting is setting that same bpm in the DAW, and you can move the whole track to the exact start of a measure (if it's not there already). Then when you make a cut, use the snap setting so it cuts right at the start of a beat. I usually make a few takes of each instrument then cut and paste over any crappy parts. Example:

Thanks for all the responses.

So, the relatesd question is this: how do you comp using playlists without a click track? When I record a track in protools and want to do multiple takes, I bump it down from a waveform to a playlist, which frees up the track to record another take. But when recording that take, I can’t hear what’s already been recorded and bumped down to a playlist. Hence the need for a click track to keep everything synced up between multiple takes. In fact, I have to solo a playlist to hear it at all.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Jimi2

Thanks for all the responses.

So, the relatesd question is this: how do you comp using playlists without a click track? When I record a track in protools and want to do multiple takes, I bump it down from a waveform to a playlist, which frees up the track to record another take. But when recording that take, I can’t hear what’s already been recorded and bumped down to a playlist. Hence the need for a click track to keep everything synced up between multiple takes. In fact, I have to solo a playlist to hear it at all.

Yes you cannot hear the previous playlist when recording to a new one
Well one can always just use a drum plugin on its own track if you don't have any other previously recorded tracks
And yes you cannot hear any lower stacked playlists unless you solo it or promote it to the top comp track

BTW are you aware of the Auto create new playlists when loop recording option ? You do not have bump it down because it does it automatically for you
Go to Preferences or Settings in the latest PT Version
Go to the Operations Tab > Record box on right side and make sure
"Automatically Create New Playlists When Loop Recording" is checked or highlighted

[Jimi2]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Yes you cannot hear the previous playlist when recording to a new one
Well one can always just use a drum plugin on its own track if you don't have any other previously recorded tracks
And yes you cannot hear any lower stacked playlists unless you solo it or promote it to the top comp track

BTW are you aware of the Auto create new playlists when loop recording option ? You do not have bump it down because it does it automatically for you
Go to Preferences or Settings in the latest PT Version
Go to the Operations Tab > Record box on right side and make sure
"Automatically Create New Playlists When Loop Recording" is checked or highlighted

Thanks for the tip, I wasn’t aware of that functionality.

So it sounds like I [I]do[I] have to use a click or drum track to keep multiple playlists in sync. Is this right?

I guess the other option is to record pieces onto individual tracks, and assemble them later.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Jimi2

Thanks for the tip, I wasn’t aware of that functionality.

So it sounds like I [I]do[I] have to use a click or drum track to keep multiple playlists in sync. Is this right?

I guess the other option is to record pieces onto individual tracks, and assemble them later.

Humm I am not quite understanding your question
Or not understanding your process because mine is likely different

If your using multiple take playlist loop recording on the very first recording pass you do in the session ? then yes recording to new playlists will mute the previous playlist take/s and you will only hear what you are recording in real time
So if that is what you are doing ? then yes I would assume most people need or use , some kind of timing reference like a click or drum track

Now I suppose one could simply record one pass (say one guitar playing pass ) Sometimes called a "scratch track" (that may or may not be used int the final product) all the way thru, and then do the multiple playlist recording on a second track to be able to comp together a final take

BUT Since I do not do solo acoustic guitar instrumentals I am not the best person to answer. When I am going to do multiple playlist recording I usually record a single rhythm guitar pass all the way thru first and then use multiple playlist recording on say the subsequent vocal track and or lead riff guitar track but I still can hear the Rhythm Gtr track to reference my timing to..

[KevWind]

So getting back to your OP
Again Honestly I think Quick punch will get you where you want to go because :
#1 it does allow you to hear for how ever many measures you set in the pre-roll before the mistake you want to correct. .

# 2 it has the advantage of background recording for the entire pre-roll start to post-roll end--- so it will not inadvertently clip off any of the new take if your timing of the punch in is not perfect

[Jimi2]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Humm I am not quite understanding your question
Or not understanding your process because mine is likely different

If your using multiple take playlist loop recording on the very first recording pass you do in the session ? then yes recording to new playlists will mute the previous playlist take/s and you will only hear what you are recording in real time
So if that is what you are doing ? then yes I would assume most people need or use , some kind of timing reference like a click or drum track

Now I suppose one could simply record one pass (say one guitar playing pass ) Sometimes called a "scratch track" (that may or may not be used int the final product) all the way thru, and then do the multiple playlist recording on a second track to be able to comp together a final take

BUT Since I do not do solo acoustic guitar instrumentals I am not the best person to answer. When I am going to do multiple playlist recording I usually record a single rhythm guitar pass all the way thru first and then use multiple playlist recording on say the subsequent vocal track and or lead riff guitar track but I still can hear the Rhythm Gtr track to reference my timing to..

Yes, sounds like I’ll need to have SOME reference point for tempo if I’m using playlists to comp. So I think a separate scratch track would work.

[Jimi2]

Originally Posted by KevWind

So getting back to your OP
Again Honestly I think Quick punch will get you where you want to go because :
#1 it does allow you to hear for how ever many measures you set in the pre-roll before the mistake you want to correct. .

# 2 it has the advantage of background recording for the entire pre-roll start to post-roll end--- so it will not inadvertently clip off any of the new take if your timing of the punch in is not perfect

Thanks. I’ve been doing a sort of haphazard combination of punching in and comping with playlists using a click track. Most of the time this works fine, but when I want to avoid the click it sounds like quick punch should work.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Jimi2

Thanks. I’ve been doing a sort of haphazard combination of punching in and comping with playlists using a click track. Most of the time this works fine, but when I want to avoid the click it sounds like quick punch should work.

You'll probably still want a click, otherwise you may not play the part your dropping in the same & either have a gap or have the quick punch cut off your playing before you finish.

If you're comping parts together you will need a click track, unless you like getting frustrated. There's little guarantee that you'll keep your tempos steady without a click...even if the click changes from section to section to reflect a more rubato style.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

You'll probably still want a click, otherwise you may not play the part your dropping in the same & either have a gap or have the quick punch cut off your playing before you finish.

While I do think learning to use a click is definitely a valuable tool and skill However noting the fact that the specific advantage of Quick Punch is not only can hear what you have previously recorded (i.e hear the timing and cadence of what you have previously recorded ) but it also background records from start of pre to end of post to help eliminates said "gaps" and especially "cut offs" . Granted however it is likely more difficult to get it to blend with something like a continuous guitar part than a vocal.

[KevWind]

So here is a quick demo of Quick Punch ha punn !!
So the first part is about how to set it up But the second part ,about 3:10 min's I re- record and sing late to demonstrate the background recording feature from start of Pre Roll to the end of Post roll
And how by just dragging the edge of the highlighted section , you may be able to quickly fix a minor timing error

Also please ignore the iMac fan noise the VO mic was only about 18" away and having been in FCP-X for about 30 mins. previous to doing the screen recording the fans were kicking in

[TBman]

Originally Posted by midwinter

Why not just do a bunch of takes and comp the parts you like together into one take?

I've done this, but the fact that it has to be done is a hint that the tune isn't ready to be recorded. It needs more practice time.

From Fast Times at Ridgemont High

"I'll serve no fries before their time."

[midwinter]

Originally Posted by TBman

I've done this, but the fact that it has to be done is a hint that the tune isn't ready to be recorded. It needs more practice time.

I generally agree. Sometimes comping takes isn’t possible (it’s really difficult with fast cross picking, for instance).

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by KevWind

While I do think learning to use a click is definitely a valuable tool and skill However noting the fact that the specific advantage of Quick Punch is not only can hear what you have previously recorded (i.e hear the timing and cadence of what you have previously recorded ) but it also background records from start of pre to end of post to help eliminates said "gaps" and especially "cut offs" . Granted however it is likely more difficult to get it to blend with something like a continuous guitar part than a vocal.

Not if you don;t play the exact same tempo as the original, that's where the gaps (or overruns) happen. Quickpunch is simply dropping into & out of record for that section you're overdubbing. If you don't play it in the same amount of time, you will have a problem.



Hence, my advice to use a click & save the headache.