#31
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One other comment on Zoom (or other) recorder preamps. The white noise generated by the preamps really kicks in with settings above about 2 o'clock on my R24 recorder. I've found that most condenser mics will hit -6 db levels way before that amount of gain, but any dynamic mic needs a lot more preamp. In my case I've simply not used dynamics with the R24, and avoid the hiss entirely. I would think that the H series pres aren't a lot different.
Just a thought. |
#32
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I really like dynamic mics for home recordings because of how their distance falloff makes them pick up less of the room. I just use a FetHead when I use a dynamic mic.
My main dynamic for recording is a Shure SM7B and that mic is so low output it usually needs a boost anyway. |
#33
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Quote:
Fran
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#34
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That is good to know. I also use my Shure SM7B with my Zoom L20R and find that it is pretty quiet without a FetHead or CloudLifter, although I haven’t actually measured the difference in the noise floor. I really like the SSH-6 mic so long as you don’t use it from a distance where the preamp noise becomes an issue. On NPR’s Tiny Desk Concerts they always use their stereo shotgun mics from distances of about a foot, and I find the SSH-6 works fine at that distance. Likely not as quiet, but certainly quiet enough that background hiss isn’t a problem. There is a lot to like about the Zoom H series recorders so long as you don’t use low gain mics without a boost or do distance miking. |
#35
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I've done comparisons between the H6 and the RME UFX: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/...h6-vs-rme-ufx/
The biggest issue I found with the H6 was the noise level I found when using the MS module. The "bidirectional mic" used for the side signal is actually a pair of cardioids back to back and they seem to be adding their self-noise. When I first encountered this I thought I had a bum mic attachment, but Zoom confirmed that my system was operating as they expected. http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/...s-noise-issue/ I wonder if the stereo shotgun module has similar performance? Fran
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#36
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I can really hear the hiss increase when I bring up the side mics, so yes. Fortunately, with just the directional mic and a short distance it is quite useable.
I demo this in the following thread: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=581708 |
#37
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So am I understanding that that real noise issue is the mic, not your Zoom preamps?
My experience with the Zoom MS mic module was the same as Fran's. I think I tossed mine, useless due to the noise. But the Zoom itself is pretty quiet with either the XY module or, better, external mics.
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#38
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I did live audio professionally for years, and I can easily separate room tone from preamp hiss in my ears, and yes adding the SSH-6 side mics adds a lot of preamp hiss into the mix. I will use it mostly (if not always) as a mono shotgun mic.
It really sounds pretty decent at close distances, but the preamp noise is a bit much for any distance miking. It certainly is a good sounding and useable recorder within it's limitations. |
#39
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EDIT: I guess it could also be that your mic needs a lot of gain, and that you have to push the preamp into its upper limit where it's noisier. So then, it's preamp noise, due to needing a lot of gain. I'm not using low-output mics, I guess.
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#40
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Ok today, I tried some recording (rather than testing) and it seems like I project way more when I'm singing than when I'm testing. Preamp noise absolutely was not an issue.
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#41
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#42
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Have to say this GAIN STAGING thing took a long time to understand, for me.
I think of it more like NOT giving more or less signal. It’s giving the inputs the right amount of signal. |
#43
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Gain staging is a learned concept and skill for certain. But as has been mentioned the problem is also determining what the source of noise actually is ? Because there is a difference between dealing with self noise, and dealing with external noise. And to make matters worse sometimes it can be both.
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