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Gluing carbon fiber to wood with Titebond
Hi everyone,
In my next build I am going to use two carbon fiber neck reinforcement strips. I have never used epoxy before. As the availability of expoxy is not very good over here, and I will probably don't need it for anything else, I prefer to use Titebond. The StewMac website tells me it is indeed possible to use normal wood glue: http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online...Materials.html But this does not match with the information I found in a lot of forum discussions I have seen about gluing carbon fiber to wood. What is your experience?
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My website: www.fingerstyle.com |
#2
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I can only guess that since the CF is held captive by the neck and fingerboard wood, it may be OK. I don`t know if I would trust it, long term...
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#3
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I wouldn't trust Tightbond to hold CF to wood in a lamination, but for buried reinforcement it works OK.
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Rodger Knox, PE 1917 Martin 0-28 1956 Gibson J-50 et al |
#4
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Used white glue to glue CF onto RC airplane spars and never had a failure.
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#5
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Most all of the builders I know who use CF use epoxy to do the gluing. The glue has to stick to the CF or it doesn't perform it's service. I don't think Titebond would stick to CF.
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Waddy |
#6
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If the surface is rough enough it will "stick," however it won't hold like epoxy. And if it isn't bonded fully to the wood as a unit, then it's pointless to use it.
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#7
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Actually come to think of it I think I used CA on the RC stuff.
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#8
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CA or epoxy are my primary choices for installing CF neck reinforcement. If I wanted to use wood glue, it would be hot hide glue, not Titebond.
I continue to be impressed at how HHG sticks nonporous materials to wood..........including the steel tee bars that I have used lately. |
#9
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And wear a mask and latex or rubber gloves when you use the stuff.You should also wear some sort of dust or respirator mask when you cut or sand the carbon rods too. |
#10
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#11
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Thanks for your comments! Hm it's a difficult decision though.
The intention if the reinforcement strip is to resists bending and creep. So if the strip fits very precisely in the slot you wouldn't need glue at all I would say. As one of you commented, it would only need glue to keep it from rattling, which I can imagine. But to make sure I don't have to sand the carbon fiber to obtain a flat surface for the fingerboard, I make the slot a bit deeper than the height of the CF. Here in Holland epoxy is unfortunately not easily available, only some boat-building shops sell it in 1/4 gallon tins, costing about 60 dollar.
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My website: www.fingerstyle.com |
#12
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Yep that West systems is expensive, looks like about the same price as Australia but it is one amazing bit of epoxy. Are you sure you can't get the 500ml size, that is how I buy it for about $35 from memory. Jim |
#13
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I would suggest a polyurethane glue. The bond between the CF and wood will be incredibly strong. A quality 2 part slow set epoxy would be a good choice as well.
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Rainsong WS1000 Classic Series Journey Instruments OF660 (Carbon Fiber Travel Guitar) Ibanez AW120 RDV (Made in Korea) Voyage-Air Transit Series VAOM-02 Squire Classic Vibe Telecaster Thinline Custom Built Reliced Strat |
#14
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There is essentially a zone, a line really, called the neutral axis that represents the equilibrium between compression and tension. In this zone nothing you can do will make any difference. This zone happens to run right down the middle of the neck where your truss rod goes. An adjustable truss rod of course is usable here but not a static one. So you need to either dig real deep the slot in your neck to get as close as possible to the back of the neck shaft (where your thumb goes when playing) or rout into the fretboard and get as close to the fret tangs as possible. IOW move as far away from the axis as possible. Most people I think would prefer to rout deep into the neck. In that case you would want to epoxy the CF in and then cap it off with a wood filler strip. Epoxy is the preferred glue as it will bond to everything around it. If you use Titebond then you are creating more of a mechanical process to hold the bar in place rather than a chemical one. My guess is that if the fit is tite then it would be ok. In the US you can get epoxy very easily I'm wondering why it's so hard to get in the Nederlands? Even the 5-minute stuff would do. |
#15
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I teach first-year mechanical engineering students in statics and strength of materials, so I am pretty aware of the maths behind it.
Still I think carbon fiber reinforcements could be very useful. For just withstanding string tension the carbon fiber is not needed indeed, millions of guitars have been built with just a normal trussrod. Although, I wouldn't call the difference just marginally. The height of the carbon fiber is about half the height of the neck thickness (excluding the fingerboard), and given the difference in Youngs modulus between both materials it does make quite a difference. It's also about creep of the material. Some guitar necks tend to show some kind of S-shape over the years, it's unlikely that will happen to a carbon fiber reinforced neck. Two strips of carbon fiber placed at a large distance from the neutral axis will make the neck much, much more stiff indeed. But in fact, I would be afraid of using the trussrod during initial setup and finetuning... Stock trussrods are not designed to deform constructions with such high stiffness. I might have found usable glue, what do you think about this one? http://www.bison.net/en/products/647...oxy-universal/
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My website: www.fingerstyle.com |
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Tags |
carbon fiber, epoxy, glue, titebond, wood |
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