Acoustic Archtops

[Driver8]

After a break of nearly 20 years of playing flat-top guitars I returned to owning a pure acoustic archtop which I am enjoying immensely. Luckily I was able to find an extremely well preserved post war L5 at a very reasonable price. It's lovely to play & with a little adjustment in playing style has become positively addictive.

However,I have read various people saying that modern archtop makers are building instruments which come closer to the sound you can obtain from a fine flat-top,would this be due to the modern archtop having X bracing or is it tuning the top specifically so?
Would anyone have any experience in which builders are going in this direction or indeed any other thoughts & advice. I have a good idea of the sound I'm looking for.

Just as as coda, the L5 will stay with me till they close my case lid down, as my daughter said, "that guitar is history Dad".

[iim7V7IM7]

Originally Posted by Driver8

After a break of nearly 20 years of playing flat-top guitars I returned to owning a pure acoustic archtop which I am enjoying immensely. Luckily I was able to find an extremely well preserved post war L5 at a very reasonable price. It's lovely to play & with a little adjustment in playing style has become positively addictive.

However,I have read various people saying that modern archtop makers are building instruments which come closer to the sound you can obtain from a fine flat-top,would this be due to the modern archtop having X bracing or is it tuning the top specifically so?
Would anyone have any experience in which builders are going in this direction or indeed any other thoughts & advice. I have a good idea of the sound I'm looking for.

Just as as coda, the L5 will stay with me till they close my case lid down, as my daughter said, "that guitar is history Dad".

The change in acoustic timbre is done by as you said using an x-brace, but also thinning the top a bit more and flatening the profile of the arch (Jimmy D'Aquisto was headed this way near the end) to get a bit more bass and overtone content. There are a number of builders who craft these modern archtops. What is your budget? That will influence who I recommend.

[Driver8]

Thank you for the prompt reply.To be quite honest instruments by D'Aquisto & the likes of John Monteleone would be way beyond my budget. I have done a bit of reading up regarding current builders prices many of which are within my reach..some unfortunately rather well in advance.
Any thoughts or experience would be appreciated.
Thanks

[backdrifter]

Knowing where you're located would help too. There are some shops that we may be able to refer you to where you could play a few archtops and find what you like. Be sure to try some before buying. As a long time flat top acoustic player, I always thought I would like a more modern, flat-top-like archtop, until I played a few. Turns out, I like my archtops to sound like the archtops of old - punchy, loud, rhythmic, cutting. I'm sure your L5 more than fills that niche though!

Enjoy, and welcome!

[gjtoth]

I just picked up a used Godin 5th Avenue from reverb.com I receive it this Friday. It is supposedly in mint condition. From all the player reviews I've read, it's exceptional value for the price.

[iim7V7IM7]

Originally Posted by Driver8

Thank you for the prompt reply.To be quite honest instruments by D'Aquisto & the likes of John Monteleone would be way beyond my budget. I have done a bit of reading up regarding current builders prices many of which are within my reach..some unfortunately rather well in advance.
Any thoughts or experience would be appreciated.
Thanks

There are MANY (literally dozens) luthiers to consider, but some that I might suggest that you consider are:

- Steve Anderson (WA)
- Mark Blanchard (CA)
- John Buscarino (NC)
- Bill Comins (PA)
- Steve Grimes (HI)
- Ted Megas (OR)
- Erich Solomon (NH)
- Ryan Thorell (UT)
- Bryant Treiner (NY)
- Dale Unger (PA)

[andrebispo]

Originally Posted by gjtoth

I just picked up a used Godin 5th Avenue from reverb.com I receive it this Friday. It is supposedly in mint condition. From all the player reviews I've read, it's exceptional value for the price.

I haven't played any of these Godin 5th Avenus, but I was told that even though they sound great with the pickup, acoustically, they aren't very loud.

A couple of months ago I searched for a cheap archtop and The Loar guitars caught my eye.

[gjtoth]

Originally Posted by andrebispo

I haven't played any of these Godin 5th Avenus, but I was told that even though they sound great with the pickup, acoustically, they aren't very loud.

A couple of months ago I searched for a cheap archtop and The Loar guitars caught my eye.

I don't gig and, for me, it's an accompanying instrument. So, loud doesn't matter to me. Sometimes loud isn't good.




<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sent from my GS4.

[kkfan]

Originally Posted by backdrifter

Knowing where you're located would help too. There are some shops that we may be able to refer you to where you could play a few archtops and find what you like. Be sure to try some before buying. As a long time flat top acoustic player, I always thought I would like a more modern, flat-top-like archtop, until I played a few. Turns out, I like my archtops to sound like the archtops of old - punchy, loud, rhythmic, cutting. I'm sure your L5 more than fills that niche though!

Enjoy, and welcome!

Do you have any YouTube links that demonstrate the difference between these two types of Archtop sounds?

Thanks!

[backdrifter]

Actually, yes! This fantastic comparison video is courtesy of another AGF member, rpguitar. Hopefully he doesn't mind me posting this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EASQnDnn0po

Everyone hears things differently, but the L5 (the first guitar) sounds "traditional" to me. Punchy, strong in the mids, fundamental and cutting. The other three sound more modern to me. More balanced, more overtones, "sweeter", some might say. My personal preference is for the traditional sound, and that L5 illustrates why. It's loud, proud, and more "in your face" than the other three. Others may prefer the warmer and "sweeter" tone of the others. There are certainly no wrong answers!

[StuartDay]

Originally Posted by backdrifter

Actually, yes! This fantastic comparison video is courtesy of another AGF member, rpguitar. Hopefully he doesn't mind me posting this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EASQnDnn0po

Everyone hears things differently, but the L5 (the first guitar) sounds "traditional" to me. Punchy, strong in the mids, fundamental and cutting. The other three sound more modern to me. More balanced, more overtones, "sweeter", some might say. My personal preference is for the traditional sound, and that L5 illustrates why. It's loud, proud, and more "in your face" than the other three. Others may prefer the warmer and "sweeter" tone of the others. There are certainly no wrong answers!

Cool video, thanks for the post. Nice demonstration of the difference in tone.

[StuartDay]

Originally Posted by Driver8

After a break of nearly 20 years of playing flat-top guitars I returned to owning a pure acoustic archtop which I am enjoying immensely. Luckily I was able to find an extremely well preserved post war L5 at a very reasonable price. It's lovely to play & with a little adjustment in playing style has become positively addictive.

However,I have read various people saying that modern archtop makers are building instruments which come closer to the sound you can obtain from a fine flat-top,would this be due to the modern archtop having X bracing or is it tuning the top specifically so?
Would anyone have any experience in which builders are going in this direction or indeed any other thoughts & advice. I have a good idea of the sound I'm looking for.

Just as as coda, the L5 will stay with me till they close my case lid down, as my daughter said, "that guitar is history Dad".

Well here is a shameless plug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai2d7TejjsA

This is a guitar I finished up earlier in the year and is being demoed by a very talented player acoustically in this video.

I think its fair to say that arch-tops have moved more into the direction you described although I wouldn't say the result (or the goal) is to sound more like a flat top. I would say the goal is simply to meet the needs of contemporary musicians who's repertoires are much more eclectic and versatile than those in the earlier era of arch-top guitars.

The technical reasons are many, X-braces certainly give a more mellow and bass/mid heavy tone, the carve/arch and graduations, f-holes play a role, tail piece construction… it all matters.

Arch-top guitars are extremely versatile instruments… the arch is a geometrically strong shape unlike the flat top. so there is a lot of freedom that exists since you have less need for structural bracing.

But, it is difficult to control the tone in an arch-top guitar because there are also a lot more variables due to the thickness and curvature of the wood.

I am introducing a new model this year at the memphis guitar festival. Tonally it will be more "traditional". a little more punchy with a strong mid range and less overtone dynamics. That will give me two solid arch-top models… a "traditional" and a "contemporary".

But for me personally arch-tops are acoustic instruments first and electric second. Thats my priority as a builder anyway, others may differ.

[Archtop Guy]

I have a '46 and a '77 L-5. Golden era Gibson and Epiphone archtops were my first love. Welcome to the club. You have started a beautiful and fulfilling journey.

I also am a fan of modern archtops, which like is said above, are all influenced by D'Aquisto's work, whether the builders admit it or not. (Most admit it openly, and proudly, while those who do no should be considered suspect IMO!)

Here's an example of yours truly playing an x-braced, lightly built acoustic archtop. Made by Bryant Trenier, very strongly influenced by a D'Aquisto New Yorker Classic, but fortunately a lot more affordable.



There's a whole bunch of stuff on my YouTube channel, all played with approximately the same mid-skill-level!

[kkfan]

Originally Posted by backdrifter

Actually, yes! This fantastic comparison video is courtesy of another AGF member, rpguitar. Hopefully he doesn't mind me posting this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EASQnDnn0po

Everyone hears things differently, but the L5 (the first guitar) sounds "traditional" to me. Punchy, strong in the mids, fundamental and cutting. The other three sound more modern to me. More balanced, more overtones, "sweeter", some might say. My personal preference is for the traditional sound, and that L5 illustrates why. It's loud, proud, and more "in your face" than the other three. Others may prefer the warmer and "sweeter" tone of the others. There are certainly no wrong answers!

Wow!!

That's a fantastic comparison! I can now understand exactly what you mean! Very helpful. Thanks so much!

[kkfan]

Originally Posted by StuartDay

But for me personally arch-tops are acoustic instruments first and electric second. Thats my priority as a builder anyway, others may differ.

Oh, how I wish more builders thought like you.