Amazing Bose!

[open-road-matt]

Post Deleted

[zombywoof]

Once upon a time the Bose 901 speakers were the speakers to own.

I'm pretty much a dinosaur when it comes to audio - got two systems - one is powered by a ca. 1960 Fisher 800B Receiver which I picked up in a pawn shop and restored as a project and the other a pair of strapped mono Sound Valves amps and BAT pre-amp. Also a Cary CD player and old AR turntable with Rega arm and Advent Legacy speakers.

As has been said, it ain't that tubes do anything particularly well but they sound so good trying.

[BuleriaChk]

Matt -

I don't have the proximity problem with the SA that you do, but does the T1 have a proprietary connector? (Could one use it in the S/R loop of the SA?)

Did you try adjusting the tweeter on the SA? It does make a difference (I turn it down, since to me it sounds harsh for nylon string with it all the way up)

====================================
Oops, never mind. It has a digital cable to the L1. I guess its equivalent might be the Aura Spectrum (for Guitar?)
Also, I hadn't read SpruceTops comments, which I find very reasonable.... In any case, for me (a solo guitarist/singer), the SoloAmp is ideal, and has plenty of bass for my application....
=====================================

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

II was going to box it up and take it back but I tried my T1 and that totally smoothed out the sound. Now I love it and the T1 allows me to use my Porchboard.

Just a few thoughts,
Matt

[SpruceTop]

Hi Matt,

I was a bit hesitant posting my thoughts on any Bose system given my limited experience with them and I welcome your and anyone else's comments and experience!

I found the amplified guitar tone of my various guitars sounded nicer out of my Fishman SoloAmp than from the big Bose L1 Model II and I think it's because of this close-range separation of the low and higher frequencies in the Bose system. As I mentioned, farther away from the speaker system, where the audience would be, the Bose would sound great!

As for the good line-array monitoring benefits of a Bose L1 system, I believe a great deal of this has to do with the separation of the bass and mid-range/high frequencies with the latter being at close range via the Cylindical Radiator and with the bass module usually being on the floor and not in a direct line with a vocal mic's pickup pattern. Thus, the potential for lower-frequency guitar feedback howl is greatly reduced. Given that a Bagamp's design is a line array of full-frequency drivers, and with first-hand reports that it is an excellent close-range monitor and main system, it would seem to me that BagAmp's feat of close-range monitor/main system design and execution is better than Bose's. Of course, a Bose radiates sound over a wider dispersion area than a BagAmp.

The reason I mentioned a player having to maybe put the bass module of a Bose system up higher in a crowded-house scenario is that much of the bass tones would be absorbed by the bodies of a close-in, standing audience such as can be found in many bars on St. Patrick's Day. Elevating the bass module would help the sytem's bass projection but would now contribute to higher feedback potential too and negate much of the Bose's close-in monitoring quality. A speaker system comprised of one Mackie SRM450 or QSC K Series speaker would be right at home in this situation because of being mounted on a speaker stand with their bass/mid/treble output within a single housing. A player would probably want a small active monitor speaker such as a Mackie SRM150 or TC Helicon VSM-300 XT to use with these more traditional designs.

The above are some of my thoughts and not being an audio engineer aren't etched in stone in my mind but based on my experiences with some of the systems and hopefully some reasonably sound inference on my part.

Regards,

Ken

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by zombywoof

Once upon a time the Bose 901 speakers were the speakers to own.

I'm pretty much a dinosaur when it comes to audio - got two systems - one is powered by a ca. 1960 Fisher 800B Receiver which I picked up in a pawn shop and restored as a project and the other a pair of strapped mono Sound Valves amps and BAT pre-amp. Also a Cary CD player and old AR turntable with Rega arm and Advent Legacy speakers.

As has been said, it ain't that tubes do anything particularly well but they sound so good trying.

Also, tubes give almost a three-dimensional coloring to the tone. Not only that a 50-watt per side stereo tube amp, due to gentle harmonically pleasing distortion, is like having something like a 200-watt (someone fill in a more accurate value, please) per side transistor based stereo amp. Tubes Rock!

Regards,

SpruceTop

[open-road-matt]

Post Deleted

[Herb Hunter]

Elevating the Bose woofer off the floor reduces its bass output. So I'd be surprised if there is any net benefit to doing so. Has anyone ever seen a bass guitar rig whose 18-inch speaker cabinet was elevated above the floor?

Low frequencies are omnidirectional which is why a subwoofer can be placed any where in the room but the sound will seem to be coming from the speakers dedicated to the higher, directional frequencies. It is the overtones of bass notes reproduced by the upper range speaker cabinets that provide the illusion that the frequencies of a subwoofer in the back of the room are coming from the front.

If one prefers the sound of a SoloAmp over that of the Bose systems it is likely due to other factors and not because of the physical separation between the bass module and the column speakers.

[Ichthyoman]

Hey all

Interesting Bose thread, but in many ways it travels roads already taken. With this system, there seems to be lovers and haters--and you won't sway folks very easily. As for me, I've recently acquired a Model II with ToneMatch and, so far, I couldn't be happier. I switched from some pretty good stuff (AER), but the Bose has provided a full, clean sound that works well with my band, which includes drums and electric guitar (he uses a Bose also). The important thing is, however, is that I can actually hear myself--which is key to good live performance. I read an interview the other day with songwriter Peter Bruntnell and he was asked whether he likes playing live. His response: "only when I can hear myself". The other thing I like is the ToneMatch--what a neat device once you take the time to learn it. It is not your average mixer, that's for sure.

Some negatives? Well, I have dealt with a wee bit of high frequency feedback--particularly when I move away from my SM-58. I'm working on this, it hasn't been too bad. Also, I had some low-end rumble from my acoustic (I play Collings) and was able to notch that out with the ToneMatch. Finally--yes, this system is portable, but you still have to schlepp a bunch of stuff. It's not too heavy, but requires a few trips to the car. Oh well.

For the right person or ensemble, I'd highly recommend them. We'll see how it goes over the long haul.

Cheers

Matt

[BuleriaChk]

I've been reading up on the T1. Turns out you can use it as a generic mixer (e.g. with a SoloAmp) if you purchase a power cord. At $499 (Sweetwater) + $35 for the cable it seems kind of pricey, especially when you can get an Edirol M10-DX for $125 on the internet (e.g. JR, BHP)

The Edirol doesn't have a USB interface for the computer, but otherwise is pretty feature-rich. I don't know if the effects are assignable on a per-channel basis on the Edirol, as thet are in the T1.

But at the very least, it looks like an interesting alternative for live performance, especially at its price point..

There may be other alternatives as well - and it looks like the stores are blowing the M10 out, which may mean a new player on the scene at Winter NAMM.... (I don't need such an animal since I perform solo and have many, many signal processors - WAY more than I need, but I was on an expensive learning curve, but if I had a group.....)

Originally Posted by BuleriaChk

====================================
Oops, never mind. It has a digital cable to the L1. I guess its equivalent might be the Aura Spectrum (for Guitar?)
Also, I hadn't read SpruceTops comments, which I find very reasonable.... In any case, for me (a solo guitarist/singer), the SoloAmp is ideal, and has plenty of bass for my application....
=====================================

[Foster]

My first experience with a Bose system was when I was forming a new band with a bassist whose existing band (which was breaking up) used 5 L1 Classics, one for each performer. All used at least 2 B1 subs, and the bassist and drummer used four. They were playing pop-rock at a typical animal club (was it the Eagles or the Moose, I forget)... a large cavernous room, lots of people. I walked around the room, and the first thing I noticed was the even dispersion, the relatively moderate volume necessary to fill the room over the crowd, and the clarity and quality of the sound.

He sold me that night, and I bought an L1 Classic system of my own. The band we were putting together was a country-rock trio, and the two L1 systems did a great job for us, no matter the size of the room we had to play. I ran my Strat through a simple Digitech multi-effects floor box straight into my L1, along with my vocal. He ran his bass, the drummer's voc and his own voc through his L1.

That band lasted a year or so, then I left to form an acoustic trio. Using a Peavey mixer, we run three vocs and three instruments through my L1 with no problems. We've even played outdoor gigs with just the single L1, and felt no lack of power to get the job done.

In addition to the trio, I do a lot of solo guitar work in restaurants and resorts, and often used the L1 for that. But I was looking for something smaller, as these gigs simply don't require the wattage of the L1 system, and portability was important to me. I almost sprang for a SoloAmp, but on checking the Bose site, discovered their recent release of the Compact system. While I had played through a SA in our local Guitar Center and really liked it, the 12-month-same-as-cash deal from Bose won me over, so I bought the Compact based on my positive experience with the larger L1 Classic.

So now I've been using the Compact for my solo work for a couple months, and overall I like it and consider it a good investment. The setup time is ridiculously short, the portability is fantastic, and the sound is typically "Bosian' -- good dispersion, full-range response, and enough wattage to get smaller jobs done.

One thing I notice is that when sitting close to the Compact tower (as I often have to do in the close quarters afforded by restaurants), the separation of the short line array section sitting up there on top of the extensions, a good 5 feet away from the amp/base/sub unit, means I'm not hearing much in the way of low end, it's mostly the line array I'm hearing. If I step out into the room a bit, I can hear the low freqs just fine, of course. The larger L1 Classic has a solid line array from floor to the top of the unit, so this separation of sound sources is not present. The Compact also seems a little light in the mid-range sometimes.

I'm not convinced, frankly, that for my needs the Bose Compact would be better than the Fishman SoloAmp. I suspect that if I traded the Bose for the Fishman I'd consider it a trade-up in terms of guitar tone (I play nylons, BTW, usually either a Takamine EC132SC, a Yamaha CGX-171SCF flamenco, or a Godin Grand Concert SA), but also in terms of features like EQ, on-board reverb (the Bose has none), etc. The entire mixer section of the SoloAmp looks very appealing and well-conceived. And I must say, the present (and heated) debate over the BagAmp also interests me.

So while I think the larger L1 systems are fantastic and well-worth the investment, I feel mixed on my assessment of the Compact. It's not that there's anything wrong with the Compact's design, it's just that I'm not sure Bose really hit the mark as solidly with the Compact as they did with the big L1s. I also suspect the Compact may have been created in response to the SoloAmp, and the focus was more on full-range sound production rather than acoustic guitar optimization. I could do with less bass response in favor of better handling of my acoustic-electric instruments.

While the Compact is probably the most aesthetically elegant sound system ever created... well, I'm still not entirely sold on it as the ideal solo guitar/small venue system. And sooner or later, that's what I want.

[tochiro]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I don't think its fair to make a blanket statement that the quality isn't high simply because you had trouble.

You can always use a mini-mixer in place of the Bose T1 mixer. It doesn't solve the frustration of your T1 not functioning properly but it would allow you to use the system until the T1 is fixed.

I think it is fair to say that my Bose system was not reliable because it is true and conclude the quality of this system is not high. If you have troubles with your equipment and cannot say it is not high quality, what can you say?

It is reasonable to assume that if I have problems other will have too. And besides I know another group with a similar Bose system as mine and they had problems too.

Using another mixer in place of the defective Bose mixer is possible only if you can have another one. That is not something everybody can afford unfortunately...

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by tochiro

I think it is fair to say that my Bose system was not reliable because it is true and conclude the quality of this system is not high. If you have troubles with your equipment and cannot say it is not high quality, what can you say?

It is reasonable to assume that if I have problems other will have too. And besides I know another group with a similar Bose system as mine and they had problems too.

Using another mixer in place of the defective Bose mixer is possible only if you can have another one. That is not something everybody can afford unfortunately...

It is fair to report a problem with a product. It is almost an obligation to do so. To state that a product is of poor quality based on a single incidence or two of failure without offering any other substantiation is, I think, unfair. Was there an obvious design flaw? Are the materials and workmanship substandard? If all one can offer is that the product failed a time or two then a claim of poor quality is undeserved.

My wife had a Toyota that developed a problem once but I didn't conclude it was of poor quality. Toyotas had the lowest incidence of failure in the industry and despite being of high quality my wife's car once developed a problem, just once. It would have been reasonable for me to assume that because she had a problem, a percentage of others would too but it would have been unreasonable for me to assume that my wife's experience was typical of most Toyota owners and that, therefore, Toyotas were not quality cars.

[Rejoice Music]

I agree with you, Herb. The L1 Compact is the 3rd piece of Bose equipment I have bought, and it is the some of the highest quality stuff I have seen or heard. No failure rate here. It's also true than any manufactured item (especially electronics) will have some failure rate. I bet Bose stuff has a very low failure rate due to its high quality control.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Rejoice Music

I agree with you, Herb. The L1 Compact is the 3rd piece of Bose equipment I have bought, and it is the some of the highest quality stuff I have seen or heard. No failure rate here. It's also true than any manufactured item (especially electronics) will have some failure rate. I bet Bose stuff has a very low failure rate due to its high quality control.

The only Bose product I own is a decade old, pair of computer speakers. They have been on continuously for many years and have been flung across the room several times by Snow Pea and Bamboo when, during a chase, one of their paws gets caught in the speaker wire. Chipped corners and a dented grill have been the only consequence of the abuse. (Previously, the speaker's had been similarly abused by Squeaky and Bartholomew both of whom succombed to lymphoma a few months apart just over three years ago.)

[open-road-matt]

Post Deleted. Sorry to have tried to call someone out on what I thought was an irresponsible post!