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  #16  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:26 PM
Steely Glen Steely Glen is offline
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Originally Posted by bozz_2006 View Post

Is the tone I hear in my head "AC15C1 tone"

OR

Is it "Vox CRANKED" tone?

I've seen the videos and while the AC4 sounds great, it's not an AC15. BUT, at the levels I'll be playing at (medium-loud. not "bedroom". not "LOUD") will I get what I love from the AC15C1 or will my volume sound better out of an AC4C1-BL? I just don't know....
This might just take some purchasing to figure out. A 15 watt tube amp, whether it's an AC15 or a Fender Blues Jr or whatever, is going to be pretty darn loud to get it to the point where it's starting to breathe. But if you can get an AC15 that you like for a good price, I'd say go with it. The AC4 can't compete with the AC15. At best, it's a little brother than does its best to imitate in a much smaller (and cheaper) package.
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  #17  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:48 PM
bozz_2006 bozz_2006 is offline
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Would you say the AC4C1-BL, at the point where it's breathing, sounds preferable to the AC15C1 at the point where it's starting to think about breathing?

I mean, 15 watts for my purpose really is overkill. I know that. The question is, does the AC4 in its "target range" equal and/or surpass what the AC15 offers in less than it's target range?

If so, fantastic. I'll get one. And $400 for an AC15C1 isn't really prohibitive, so I can budget for that in the future. But this will be my only amp for a while; I want it to sound good. I know I really want the 15, but I want it with the tubes burnin', which I don't think I will achieve most of the time.

Perhaps an AC4 pushed to breaking actually fits me better for the time being. I played a Blues Jr for a long time today. And you're right about volume/tone. It did sound nice, but it had to be LOUD to sound very good. If I could get very good out of the AC4 at less than LOUD, it's probably the one for me right now. If not, then it's likely the 15.

Last edited by bozz_2006; 12-06-2012 at 06:45 AM.
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  #18  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:55 AM
Steely Glen Steely Glen is offline
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Originally Posted by bozz_2006 View Post
Would you say the AC4C1-BL, at the point where it's breathing, sounds preferable to the AC15C1 at the point where it's starting to think about breathing?

I mean, 15 watts for my purpose really is overkill. I know that. The question is, does the AC4 in its "target range" equal and/or surpass what the AC15 offers in less than it's target range?

If so, fantastic. I'll get one. And $400 for an AC15C1 isn't really prohibitive, so I can budget for that in the future. But this will be my only amp for a while; I want it to sound good. I know I really want the 15, but I want it with the tubes burnin', which I don't think I will achieve most of the time.

Perhaps an AC4 pushed to breaking actually fits me better for the time being. I played a Blues Jr for a long time today. And you're right about volume/tone. It did sound nice, but it had to be LOUD to sound very good. If I could get very good out of the AC4 at less than LOUD, it's probably the one for me right now. If not, then it's likely the 15.
Unfortunately, your question can only be answered by you because they're your ears. To me, the AC4C1 sounds pretty darn good when it's pushed. Mine is 100% stock right now and I plan on upgrading tubes and either going with a 10" Greenback speaker or also getting the V112NT 12" cab as an extension to give me more flexibility in playing to a larger room. So there are options in sweetening up the tone even more than the stock configuration.

I would add that many of us buy tube amps that are too powerful on the first go-around. I know I did. I have a 40w Fender Hot Rod Deluxe that hasn't had the dust cover off it in months. I've never gotten the volume pot above 3 because it's just that loud. It was (and is) waaaay too much amp for my purposes, but I didn't realize that 6 years ago. So maybe there's some merit to buying small and then upgrading later.

Personally, it sounds like the AC15 is what you really want and I think you can make the AC15 work. But the AC4C1 is also a low-risk purchase. It's a very versatile little amp that would easy to sell if you got it and a year later decided on the AC15.

Which reminds me, you do know Guitar Center has a 30-day return policy, right? If they have both in stock, why not buy one and take 29 days to decide which you like?
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  #19  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:34 AM
bozz_2006 bozz_2006 is offline
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That's what I'll end up doing, because you're right. Unfortunately, the closest GC is nearly 300 miles away, so i will have to ship it back, but that's a pretty minor inconvenience. I believe the biggest (rather, smallest) reason I'm swayed away from the AC4 is not the amp but the speaker.

I so wish I could get it with a 12" speaker (but not have to pay through the nose for an ext cab). That would likely solve it for me, but unfortunately that would be more out of pocket, and I'm guessing that's exactly the way Vox planned it. I am concerned that the AC15 is too much power, but also that the AC4 is too little speaker. I'll likely place an order today, and as you said, it's a low-risk purchase.

You've been really great, walking me through all this waffling. I sincerely appreciate it.
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  #20  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:36 AM
J Patrick J Patrick is online now
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a few thoughts...i have an ac4c1...(the latest one in green tolex) and used to own a heritage handwired ac15....i've swapped the tubes and speaker out on the ac4c1 (put a 10 inch greenback in it)...you will not get the big full tone out of the ac4 that you will get out of an ac15 unless you play it through an extension cabinet with a bigger speaker....even then you'll get close but not quite there...(i have a 1-12 cabinet with a very high efficiency emi tonker in it)...what you will get is very nice chime and crunch at a considerably lower volume....the treble control on the ac4c1 is almost like a reverse cut knob but it actually fattens up the tone a lot as you dial it down...the ac4c1 is not very versatile as its clean tones are limited and its overdrive sound is not really variable....(of course a good pedal board will add a lot of versatility)...you really need to go to a guitar center and try the amps in question for yourself as they are quite different....try some other stuff as well....there are a lot of options...
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  #21  
Old 12-06-2012, 02:18 PM
bozz_2006 bozz_2006 is offline
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Well, I think I've settled on the fact that 15 watts is just too much power for me; I'll never push the tubes hard enough. I'm liking the ac4c1 a lot, but am still leery about only having a ten inch speaker. I wish they had an ac4c1 head and i could get a cab with a 12" greenback...
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  #22  
Old 12-06-2012, 02:29 PM
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the ac15 with an overdrive pedal MAY work for you. it won't compare to cranking the amp, but, may satisfy you both at home and at church. yes, you would then have to review the pedals!! ha!

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  #23  
Old 12-06-2012, 03:14 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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The AC15C1 has a very nice low volume tone, as I said I owned one, plus the additional headroom makes it better suited to pedals, and the trem and reverb on them are great!!! They really worked on the reverb in them.
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  #24  
Old 12-06-2012, 03:38 PM
bozz_2006 bozz_2006 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
The AC15C1 has a very nice low volume tone,
Even for some Voxy dirt? If that's the case... I mean, that's the one I want, and the trem and reverb are something I wouldn't get on the 4 watters. I want some nice solid breakup at indoor volume. Not quiet, but not ear-melting. If so, and I HOPE so, I like the AC15C1.
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  #25  
Old 12-06-2012, 04:18 PM
royd royd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozz_2006 View Post
Well, I think I've settled on the fact that 15 watts is just too much power for me; I'll never push the tubes hard enough. I'm liking the ac4c1 a lot, but am still leery about only having a ten inch speaker. I wish they had an ac4c1 head and i could get a cab with a 12" greenback...
there are some great 10 inch speakers available out there. Go to the Weber website and listen to the blue pup and the 10 inch silver bell along with others or to the Eminence site and listen to their offerings. Plus by swapping the speaker, not only can you impact the tone of the amp, you can also change the volume by getting a more or less efficient speaker.

The stereotypical Vox sound has a Celestion Blue Alnico speaker (or two actually). The Weber blue pup is a very similar sound in a 10 in speaker.

I think I mentioned in the earlier thread that I use a silverface Fender Champ in the church band that I put in a larger cab with a 12 inch weber alnico blur dog speaker. The speaker is very efficient so it gives me a bit more volume and headroom for a small amp (remember doubling the wattage only gives you a 3db volume increase so getting a speaker that is 3db more efficient is like doubling the wattage or cutting the efficiency 3 db is like halving the wattage). Also the speaker has a "British" flavor to it so that changes my very American Fender a bit too.

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Last edited by royd; 12-06-2012 at 04:23 PM. Reason: added
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  #26  
Old 12-06-2012, 05:53 PM
terrapin terrapin is offline
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Sounds like the AC15 is the one you really want! I would agree with that choice. Personally I think the AC4's sound tiny in comparison. Good practice amps, but that is about it.

Get the AC15 and see if you can get the sound you are after at a useable volume. You might be surprised. If not you can always use a good Vox-like OD pedal (Crowther Hot Cake, Catalinbread CB30...) to get that overdriven sound you are after. Or, get a good attenuator. I have a Fargen Custom
AC15 build and use pedals and an attenuator at home to get it "cooking" at reasonable volumes. Then, when I play out I can get the natural OD that the amp prefers. Always better to have something that can do more than something that does less.
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  #27  
Old 12-06-2012, 06:09 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrapin View Post
Sounds like the AC15 is the one you really want! I would agree with that choice. Personally I think the AC4's sound tiny in comparison. Good practice amps, but that is about it.

Get the AC15 and see if you can get the sound you are after at a useable volume. You might be surprised. If not you can always use a good Vox-like OD pedal (Crowther Hot Cake, Catalinbread CB30...) to get that overdriven sound you are after. Or, get a good attenuator. I have a Fargen Custom
AC15 build and use pedals and an attenuator at home to get it "cooking" at reasonable volumes. Then, when I play out I can get the natural OD that the amp prefers. Always better to have something that can do more than something that does less.
This quote entirely is in line with my viewpoint, especially regarding the tiny AC4 sound. The AC15 is gig worthy if needed. And the ineffecient greenback keeps the volume in-check!
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  #28  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:29 PM
bozz_2006 bozz_2006 is offline
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AC15C1 IT IS!!! I'm gonna give GC a call after I put my kids to bed. Hopefully they'll give me a deal! The current discount doesn't include Vox (actually, there are seriously about 100 of the top brands excluded. Ugh....) but I just bought a used Collings from them. Hopefully they'll throw me a bone!

Any recommendations on budget-friendly OD pedal and attenuator? And maybe an A/B/Y box, too...
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  #29  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:00 PM
terrapin terrapin is offline
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OD pedal for a Vox....Crowther Hot Cake, Catalinbread CB30, Menatone Top Boost in a Can. Attenuator....Dr. Z Brake Lite. ABY Pedal...Radial Twin Cities. If you just bought a Collins from GC you should demand they cut you a good deal.
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  #30  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:12 PM
bozz_2006 bozz_2006 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrapin View Post
OD pedal for a Vox....Crowther Hot Cake, Catalinbread CB30, Menatone Top Boost in a Can. Attenuator....Dr. Z Brake Lite. ABY Pedal...Radial Twin Cities. If you just bought a Collins from GC you should demand they cut you a good deal.
I did. LOL. No such luck. They have a promo right now for $100 off a $499 purchase, and $200 off a $999 purchase, though Vox is on the exclucsions list (even though they easily over-ride that.) I had wanted to get the $200 off, even though the AC15 is only $599. No dice. They offered me the $100 off promo price they've got going on, plus upgraded shipping. I'm not quite satisfied with that.

I'm exploring my options a bit now. Thinking about possibly picking up one from GC's online used inventory. I'd be more comfortable buying new, but I know there's really no reason I should be.

Last edited by bozz_2006; 12-06-2012 at 08:23 PM.
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